[Ammi]

..that's not what I said at all but work awaits me...in the fighting forces and people who make those decisions, we are ever grateful to them and would not be what we are without them but that doesn't mean that we could all do the same/be the same otherwise we all would and would all be fairly much the same...

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..just to pick up on Livia's post..although I know that I personally couldn't authorise the torture of someone, I do think that what she says is very logical and ,ay be the most effective thing to try to prevent the loss of lives...in reality, although (as in most hypothetical dilemmas..)..this is an extreme, there are relatively few people who could make this decision and also relatively few who could implement it and I thank goodness that we have people like that...there is no 'morals' here or any lack of morals because either decision is a fairly awful one to have to make and if the situation did happen, I think we really would all want and hope that the 'right people/person' was there to make it because if they weren't then we would probably all be dead anyway...

..so although I could not personally do this because I know my own personal limitations, I would definitely want someone of Livia's mind-set 'on the job'...but that's also not to say that anyone like myself who couldn't do this or do 'what was needed' is in any way weaker or selfish either because that just isn't so...in certain crisis and certainly in one's of my own life and my friends/family etc..I have my own 'specific skills' in which I have definitely been the right person for that 'problem solving'..these are things that make us all different and why we do all need to be different and in a family situation for instance...there are things/dilemmas where my OH is just that right person and there are dilemmas and crisis where I am the right person and that kind of makes it all work out quite well because our children kind of know which parent would be the best one to ask advice on a specific thing..although we do both have 'little consultations' as well lol....


..anyway, I know I couldn't do this/wouldn't be the person to make this decision..but to be forced to authorise a barbaric act like torture would not be easy for anyone, neither would be having to implement it...whether someone could do it or couldn't do it, there is no higher or lower ground here..it's all to do with knowing yourself and knowing what your own capabilities/skills/strengths/weaknesses etc are ..knowing that you could be effective here but not in another crisis situation or that you wouldn't be effective here but would be in something else etc....in this specific thing, I would probably want Livia on my side or someone very much like her making that decision...which says nothing at all about her character or my character..other than we both have strengths and weaknesses in different things etc...as all people do..

ammi, you have gone all around the houses!

put simply you could not make this decision!, but are happy if someone like myself or livia would.

let me put it to you in these terms, if it was you and you alone that had to make that decision, would you sleep better at night knowing you did not torture an evil man or that you let thousands of good people die?

[Livia]

I totally get what Ammi's saying. As a tenuous analogy... I'm glad there are people in the world who can look after physically and mentally disabled people, but I myself couldn't be a carer. I'm not the right type, I don't have the right stuff. Luckily, the human race is rich and varied and we all rely on each other for different things.

So... if you want someone tortured, PM thesheriff or me and we'll come to some kind of arrangement.

[arista]

Originally Posted by HD

A liquid forced down throat is torture?

yes as you can not breath
so you choke - some die


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[HD]

Originally Posted by arista

yes as you can not breath
so you choke - some die


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[Scarlett.]

I think in the case of stopping a nuclear bomb going off is the only time that torture would be understandable, I mean, I'm totally against torture, but a nuclear bomb would be absolutely devastating, on a very large scale.