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Kizzy · 20-03-2014, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Does it matter? It's an accurate representation of the mindset of those at the top, setting the policies. This message is a fairly succinct summing up of the announced budget. This is the mindset that is setting the course for the entire country. The fact that not all Tories agree is irrelevant: the ones who matter, do. And anyone who doesnt share this mindset and still supports the Tories in any way, is frankly either in denial or just plain ****ing stupid.

Here here! They have always been the party of the elite for the elite since the get go.

Livia · 21-03-2014, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Does it matter? It's an accurate representation of the mindset of those at the top, setting the policies. This message is a fairly succinct summing up of the announced budget. This is the mindset that is setting the course for the entire country. The fact that not all Tories agree is irrelevant: the ones who matter, do. And anyone who doesnt share this mindset and still supports the Tories in any way, is frankly either in denial or just plain ****ing stupid.

If you're going to make wild generalisations about political parties and the people who back them, I guess the same could be said about Labour... spent all the money, dragged us into massive debt, sold our gold reserve at the lowest price recorded for decades, took us to war on a lie despite massive public opposition... but despite all that, and despite the fact I do not support Labour's 'Champagne Socialist' elite, there are still a few Labour MPs I have massive respect for... Stephen Timms for instance. You can't tar every single person with the same brush just because of the colour of his rosette. Well, I can't, because to do so would just be plain ****ing stupid. Wouldn't it.

Shaun · 21-03-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Livia · 21-03-2014, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Here here! They have always been the party of the elite for the elite since the get go.

*Hear, hear.

And Labour used to be the party of the working person.

GiRTh · 21-03-2014, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

*Hear, hear.

The Tories need a complete rethink. This just isnt working.

arista · 21-03-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The Tories need a complete rethink. This just isnt working.

its one bloke

Grant

Livia · 21-03-2014, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The Tories need a complete rethink. This just isnt working.

Oh yeah, I agree. A complete rethink. I think ALL the parties need a complete rethink.

GiRTh · 21-03-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Oh yeah, I agree. A complete rethink. I think ALL the parties need a complete rethink.

The image they're leaders are all projecting is not very statesmanlike.

user104658 · 21-03-2014, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

If you're going to make wild generalisations about political parties and the people who back them, I guess the same could be said about Labour... spent all the money, dragged us into massive debt, sold our gold reserve at the lowest price recorded for decades, took us to war on a lie despite massive public opposition... but despite all that, and despite the fact I do not support Labour's 'Champagne Socialist' elite, there are still a few Labour MPs I have massive respect for... Stephen Timms for instance. You can't tar every single person with the same brush just because of the colour of his rosette. Well, I can't, because to do so would just be plain ****ing stupid. Wouldn't it.

You could make those generalisations and you wouldn't be wrong, although the war is a moot point as it was fully supported by the conservatives in opposition (Iraq was on no matter who was in power at the time; this also applies to the US. Greater forces at work.)

However, I'm not talking about shoddy decisions, bad policies or tragic mistakes. I'm talking about an entire mindset. A mindset perfectly illustrated by the image in the first post but not confined to that, because it's a mindset that is fuelling almost every decision that the current government is making. A mindset that refers to normal people as "they / them" and makes sweeping generalisations about how much "they" like a game of Bingo and a pint at the pub and aren't interested in the proper stuff that concerns those with higher intellects and bigger bank balances.

It might as well say "Cheaper grass, because sheep love grass, don't they?".

The fact that this is the blatant opinion of every single high-up conservative, including the chancellor, the prime minister, and the head of every single Tory-headed government department means that YES... Continuing to support them as a party if you don't share that overall mindset that infuses absolutely everything they stand for... Is stupid.

I'm not a Labour fanboy. My main praise for Labour is ... They're not Tories. Our entire political system is ****. Labour have bad policies and have made some cringeworthy blundering mistakes. But if the huge numbers of normal people in this country MUST find themselves slowly slipping underwater and drowning... I'd rather it be down to blunders, mistakes and bad policies and not because that bunch of dismissive, arrogant, offensive, smirking twats actively want to see it happen.

I just hope to god that when we crumble, we have a great enough sense of justice to ensure that we take them with us.

Livia · 21-03-2014, 06:08 PM

You know, there are some really good constituency MPs who never make it to the cabinet. Who work really hard for their constituents and never make it to the upper echelons. MPs from all the parties. That's what I'm getting at. It's the "they're all the same" stance, when they just are not all the same.

We're not going to agree on this Toy Soldier, your analogies about sheep and grass, they're too wild for me. We'll have to agree to disagree... although I think it we ever managed to get down to the nitty gritty, we probably share more ideas than we differ on.

joeysteele · 21-03-2014, 06:34 PM

I think all parties could do with sorting themselves out and to start showing more respect to the electorate.

I come from a Conservative background but most of the Conservative councillors and MP's I have come across are decent and caring people who have seen their voice removed from the current Govt and under the present leadership.
I think we have the most heartless, cold and extreme Ministers of Govt. we likely ever have had in this Govt.
This advert reflected the thinking and attitude of likely over half of this Cabinet, a disgrace and one the Country I hope reject and get rid of strongly in 2015.

Will I ever likely vote Conservative again, probably I will.
NOT however until at least the likes of George Osborne, the pathetic and totally useless Theresa May,Andrew Lansley and the really big one namely Ian Duncan Smith, along with this really poor leader and PM, David Cameron are well and truly gone from the hierarchy of the party and the decent element have got control again.

The Lib Dems, should be out on their necks for the way they dumped their original policies and betrayed the people who trusted and voted for them.
I feel sick when I hear them say they have stuck with the coalition, they have had no choice, they have been flirting with being in single figures in opinion polls for over 3 years now.
They dread any elections coming.
Had they been on 20 to 25% as they were in 2010, they would have brought this coalition to an end likely a year ago at the very least.

Labour, for me have learned some lessons and all Govts make mistakes.
I don't blame Labour for the crash that came in 2008, that was coming and no Govt. would have likely been prepared for the size that crash was.
Yes, Gordon Brown should have planned better in over 10 years but then why didn't the Conservatives too in their 18 years before that,they did nothing as to major bank regulations either.
Under a Conservative Govt,we would have still gone to war in Iraq,the Conservatives too would have had the crash that came in 2008 to deal with and they too would have bailed out the Banks, I have no doubt as to that.

They likely would not have built up the deficit to the level it got to but they would have allowed likely millions to lose their jobs to ride out the recession.
Either way, no matter what Govt was in, we would have had a financial mess to deal with or a human cost one as to heavier unemployment.
Both would have had to take years to deal with and sort out.

However, I think Ed Miliband does now 'get' the need for compassion in politics and in policy making. That is why he has my support now.
I hope I will not be disappointed,the last thing the Country needs are 2 Conservative leaders leading the 2 main parties.
Tony Blair was as far away from a Labour leader that you could get and he squandered 2 of the biggest ever overall majorities and failed to lay in place real protection for the average workers and especially the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable.

Something this heartless and cowardly lot have seized on in their constant sledgehammer attacks as to policy against those groups of people.

This advert should, in my view, be unversally across the board condemned, for me it sums up the thinking and attitude as to rotten policy from this PM and his Ministers in cabinet.
Never before, in my opinion from all I have read as to election history and Governments,has any Govt deserved to be thrown out in a big way the way this one does.

It shows disrespect for the dignity of, no compassion for and contempt for a sizeable number of the citizens of this Country.
That advert said a great deal and I hope it is one more influential and final nail in the coffin of this Govt.

Rob! · 21-03-2014, 09:01 PM

There was a bingo tax?

Kizzy · 21-03-2014, 09:08 PM

Yes and they halved it, how big a loss will that be considering it applies to online gaming too?
Why would they do that?
If they really wanted to help they could have taken VAT off gas and electric... and sanitary towels.