[Ammi]

..I think people can often become victims of the very thing that has hurt them in their lives, it seems quite common..yes it is selfish, but people in dark places and addicts are often incapable of being anything other than selfish because they have no coping abilities in life...it's always strange when someone who seems on the outside to be coping as in she cared for her children and was a mother to them etc could be incapable of thinking of them more than what she was doing to herself but I guess unless you have been in that place that she was then you can't really understand it...

..I know someone in slightly different circumstances who was bi-polar and an alcoholic and she took her own life and left two young children ..I don't know what brought her to that at the second she did it or the time just before she did it and was focused on doing it but I do know that she loved her children, they were her life and she was an amazing mother...

[Vicky.]

I will never understand the 'she went through it so thats why she did it' type thinking. Its the same when parents abuse their kids because they were abused...why on earth would you want your own kids to go through what you have been through...you would think it would make you even less likely to do it.

[Tip]

I don't pretend to understand and I do get angry that people bring children into this world and then mess them up, leading to future generations doing the same.

Intelligence, knowledge, resources and support don't seem to be enough to stop people acting in a self destructive way. Maybe we're all a mess in some way or another and should be pitied if we can't cope - but I can't help feeling at some point someone should actually have an expectation that others take some responsibility for themselves.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I will never understand the 'she went through it so thats why she did it' type thinking. Its the same when parents abuse their kids because they were abused...why on earth would you want your own kids to go through what you have been through...you would think it would make you even less likely to do it.

billy connolly was abused and he turned out to be one of the greatest people britain has ever produced. alas these days we seem to create victim mentality rather than aspiring to something far greater like the big yin!!!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

I don't even know where to start with that disjointed mess of a post but at least get your own priorities in check before you call others confused.

because I destroyed your argument.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Redway

I think you know full well I didn't mean it like that. Obviously anyone with half a brain cell knows about the dangers of heroin but judgement can be so impaired that people are unable to see the consequences of their actions, or can't weigh them up into perspective. So it's not as clear-cut as you're making it out to be.

And well that's you. Different people cope in different ways and what disgusts you or whatever may attract another person.

I'm not saying I don't have an immense amount of sympathy for everyone involved (especially the children), but - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - we don't know the full story right now or what drove her to take hard drugs etc. So it's wrong that people are so quick to jump on the "what a selfish disgusting mother' bandwagon quite so soon.

Like I've said, drug addiction is an illness so it's not as clear-cut as getting a grip or whatever. At all.

If I knew I wouldn't have asked would I?
I haven't made anything clear cut just offered my take on the situation redway, I know addiction is an illness not once did I suggest it wasn't...

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If I knew I wouldn't have asked would I?
I haven't made anything clear cut just offered my take on the situation redway, I know addiction is an illness not once did I suggest it wasn't...

if its an incurable illness and these junkies are powerless to put down the drugs, how come many people have the strength of character to get off this poison and others dont?

[Vanessa]

I think some people just can't cope with life sadly. They aren't strong enough and that is so sad.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I think some people just can't cope with life sadly. They aren't strong enough and that is so sad.

sad for the victims of their crimes, their thefts, their violence, their destruction of families

[lostalex]

this is gonna get really serious, probably too serious for this ****ing forum, but my brother is a heroin addict, and I know he is gonna die, it's just a matter of when. i just hope he knows that he is loved when it finally ends. i hope the feeling is great, and he knows FOR SURE that he is loved.

I know life is short for everyone, and honestly, if i live a hundred years, i don't care, i just want to know that i am loved in the end.

my brother is loved, and if he dies tomorrow that's all that matters to me, that he knows that I loved him.

I hope Peaches knew that she was loved when she died.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by the truth

sad for the victims of their crimes, their thefts, their violence, their destruction of families

Yes.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

if its an incurable illness and these junkies are powerless to put down the drugs, how come many people have the strength of character to get off this poison and others dont?

Addiction alters both your body and your brain chemistry ergo it becomes an illness that requires complex treatment.
I can't answer why some manage to successfully kick their addictions and some can't unfortunately.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Addiction alters both your body and your brain chemistry ergo it becomes an illness that requires complex treatment.
I can't answer why some manage to successfully kick their addictions and some can't unfortunately.

what im saying is people are now as powerless to kick this as you have previously implied. that is the attitude that enables the junkie and doesnt push them to kick it. they also need a better life to aspire to, a rehabiliation centre is not always the answer. even if they get clean , where then? theyre usually unemployable.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

what im saying is people are now as powerless to kick this as you have previously implied. that is the attitude that enables the junkie and doesnt push them to kick it. they also need a better life to aspire to, a rehabiliation centre is not always the answer. even if they get clean , where then? theyre usually unemployable.

Some try and fail some try and succeed that's all I am saying, that's not the same as saying don't try.....
Rehab is removing them from their normal environment during the initial phase of detox to enable them to abstain without their usual triggers.
I think that's vital, and if successful then there's no reason they cant function normally and get a job, employers rarely ask for a full medical history.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Addiction alters both your body and your brain chemistry ergo it becomes an illness that requires complex treatment.
I can't answer why some manage to successfully kick their addictions and some can't unfortunately.

that's right kizzy. it is a very complex disease, and if anyone knew a cure i really wish they'd share it with us all! it is a deadly disease and it's no one's fault, it is a disease. no one chooses to be an addict. no one would choose it. people don;'t realize that just because you can't see it on an x-ray, just because you can't just take antibiotics, it's still a disease. it's something deeper that we can't see, and it kills.

it's killing my brother.

[Tip]

It may be a difficult disease to cure but it's a preventable disease.
There's a personal choice made when you start on the path - or are people literally totally helpless in what they do and don't do?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

that's right kizzy. it is a very complex disease, and if anyone knew a cure i really wish they'd share it with us all! it is a deadly disease and it's no one's fault, it is a disease. no one chooses to be an addict. no one would choose it. people don;'t realize that just because you can't see it on an x-ray, just because you can't just take antibiotics, it's still a disease. it's something deeper that we can't see, and it kills.

it's killing my brother.

I am truly sorry to hear that alex, why do they try it? that's the $64,000000 question.... They think they can manage it or wont become dependent and it's wrong

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

that's right kizzy. it is a very complex disease, and if anyone knew a cure i really wish they'd share it with us all! it is a deadly disease and it's no one's fault, it is a disease. no one chooses to be an addict. no one would choose it. people don;'t realize that just because you can't see it on an x-ray, just because you can't just take antibiotics, it's still a disease. it's something deeper that we can't see, and it kills.

it's killing my brother.

[Tip]

Yes, I'm sorry if I seem a bit harsh.

I've had close family members die of addiction to damaging substances (tobacco and alcohol) and I do feel it's the families that suffer more in some ways (maybe I'm wrong).

I feel both sad and angry about it and I guess that shows in my need to feel that people do need to take some responsibility.

Best Wishes.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Tip

Yes, I'm sorry if I seem a bit harsh.

I've had close family members die of addiction to damaging substances (tobacco and alcohol) and I do feel it's the families that suffer more in some ways (maybe I'm wrong).

I feel both sad and angry about it and I guess that shows in my need to feel that people do need to take some responsibility.

Best Wishes.

I agree.

[the truth]

first rule of dealing with junkies. GET THEM OFF THE STREETS TO MAKE THE STREETS SAFER FOR INNOCENT PEOPLE

[Redway]

Originally Posted by the truth

because I destroyed your argument.

Nope.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by lostalex

that's right kizzy. it is a very complex disease, and if anyone knew a cure i really wish they'd share it with us all! it is a deadly disease and it's no one's fault, it is a disease. no one chooses to be an addict. no one would choose it. people don;'t realize that just because you can't see it on an x-ray, just because you can't just take antibiotics, it's still a disease. it's something deeper that we can't see, and it kills.

it's killing my brother.

Alex.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

Nope.

another pitiful response as was your non argument

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

first rule of dealing with junkies. GET THEM OFF THE STREETS TO MAKE THE STREETS SAFER FOR INNOCENT PEOPLE

What do you suggest we do with this human flotsam?