[Jack_]

Depends on the context you're asking it in. Queen Bitch as in a negative thing or Queen Bitch as in yeah she slays the rest of them

Helen's definitely the nastier person, I prefer her as a housemate though. On a personal level I definitely like Ashleigh more

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Depends on the context you're asking it in. Queen Bitch as in a negative thing or Queen Bitch as in yeah she slays the rest of them

Helen's definitely the nastier person, I prefer her as a housemate though. On a personal level I definitely like Ashleigh more

Open to interpretation. Glad you got the debate going about it.

Helen is more angry but Ashleigh is more moody brat.

I kinda like both as HMs. Hard to call in real life but i think i'd rather turn to Helen than Ashleigh if i needed a friend in an hour of need.

[Achilles]

"brat" keeps being slung at Ashleigh and people don't even know what the word means.

Do you know who the BRATS are? - Helen, Winston, Ash, Mark, Steven etc

Brat means to behave badly, a label given to children.

Ashleigh is one of the most mature people in there, she reacts to what the REAL BRATS do

[Creggle]

Originally Posted by Achilles

"brat" keeps being slung at Ashleigh and people don't even know what the word means.

Do you know who the BRATS are? - Helen, Winston, Ash, Mark, Steven etc

Brat means to behave badly, a label given to children.

Ashleigh is one of the most mature people in there, she reacts to what the REAL BRATS do

They call her a brat because she's young, end of.

They also call her ugly because she's beautiful and a ***** because she's female.

[kefln]

Are these two even in the same league?

In real life would people even know that Ashleigh was bitching? Is she any worse than anyone else in their day to day dealings with people they don't like? From every conversation I've ever had on the subject, its fairly normal for girls to sit together in small groups and bitch about people they don't like. And anyone who claims to have never done the same is lying. Hell a vast quantity of bitching about HMs goes on here daily. How is that any better? Given some of things I've read recently online, some of her detractors have far more bite than she.

However it is not normal to act like Helen. Screaming, shouting abuse, name calling, drunken fights, getting into peoples faces...it takes a certain type of person to justify that sort of behaviour.

[booboomartin]

Originally Posted by kefln

Are these two even in the same league?

In real life would people even know that Ashleigh was bitching? Is she any worse than anyone else in their day to day dealings with people they don't like? From every conversation I've ever had on the subject, its fairly normal for girls to sit together in small groups and bitch about people they don't like. And anyone who claims to have never done the same is lying. Hell a vast quantity of bitching about HMs goes on here daily. How is that any better? Given some of things I've read recently online, some of her detractors have far more bite than she.

However it is not normal to act like Helen. Screaming, shouting abuse, name calling, drunken fights, getting into peoples faces...it takes a certain type of person to justify that sort of behaviour.

apart from drunken fights, EVERYTHING you have said about helen you can apply to ashleigh. last nights show was a prime example of her of her loutish behaivour. as you know she was screaming, shouting abuse, name calling, and i'm sure if helen was there, would have got right into her face. also, her swearing was delightful (not). i bet her mum and family are very proud of her effing like a trooper. pretty face, but nasty girl

[MartianMark]

Originally Posted by booboomartin

apart from drunken fights

Key difference right there. They've all had their moments of "bitching" and "moaning" but Helen takes it to a whole other level. The reason she's been warned so many times is b/c it verges on verbal abuse to the point that she can be somewhat threatening (eg. argument with Matthew).

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by booboomartin

apart from drunken fights, EVERYTHING you have said about helen you can apply to ashleigh. last nights show was a prime example of her of her loutish behaivour. as you know she was screaming, shouting abuse, name calling, and i'm sure if helen was there, would have got right into her face. also, her swearing was delightful (not). i bet her mum and family are very proud of her effing like a trooper. pretty face, but nasty girl

I doubt her family are crying over it either. Their daughter/sister/niece/friend has stood up against a bully, has loads of fans AND a big chance of winning BB (and a hundred grand) ..so i'm betting they are pretty proud

[kefln]

Originally Posted by booboomartin

apart from drunken fights, EVERYTHING you have said about helen you can apply to ashleigh. last nights show was a prime example of her of her loutish behaivour. as you know she was screaming, shouting abuse, name calling, and i'm sure if helen was there, would have got right into her face. also, her swearing was delightful (not). i bet her mum and family are very proud of her effing like a trooper. pretty face, but nasty girl

And therein lies the problem. Ignore the first point entirely, do best to downgrade the aggressive behaviour of one HM, upgrade the bad behaviour of the other.

How does adding comments about a HMs parents make for a point? Yes Ashleighs parents should be ashamed, she curses, like 99% of the human population.

And how does making things up, make for a point? Something didn't happen, but I'm sure it would. It didn't, so its irrelevant.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Craigy_CraigO

They call her a brat because she's young, end of.

They also call her ugly because she's beautiful and a ***** because she's female.

There are different types of brattish behaviour. Sometimes it's tantrum-like (eg Helen or Toya exploding at people), sometimes it's that 'holier than thou' moody brat style (like Ashleigh or Danielle bitching in the pod)

It's just a convenient phrase and not meant to be taken too seriously

For the record - i like both Ashleigh and Helen and never have i - or would i - call anyone ugly or a *****, if you are implying that about me in your post.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Robodog

There are different types of brattish behaviour. Sometimes it's tantrum-like (eg Helen or Toya exploding at people), sometimes it's that 'holier than thou' moody brat style (like Ashleigh or Danielle bitching in the pod)

It's just a convenient phrase and not meant to be taken too seriously

For the record - i like both Ashleigh and Helen and never have i - or would i - call anyone ugly or a *****, if you are implying that about me in your post.

Is Chris a brat?

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Achilles

Is Chris a brat?

Nah i wouldn't say so.

He is too humourous, considered and laid back in his approach to fit into that classic brattish behaviour category.

Mark and Christopher on the other hand..

[Creggle]

Originally Posted by Robodog

There are different types of brattish behaviour. Sometimes it's tantrum-like (eg Helen or Toya exploding at people), sometimes it's that 'holier than thou' moody brat style (like Ashleigh or Danielle bitching in the pod)

It's just a convenient phrase and not meant to be taken too seriously

For the record - i like both Ashleigh and Helen and never have i - or would i - call anyone ugly or a *****, if you are implying that about me in your post.

Why would that post be about you? I meant the members that literally bring her up in every topic, throw at least one insult about her looks into their block of text and speak to her fans in a condescending way.

Fair enough though, Ashleigh can be moody, but I suppose that's to be expected in an environment like that, Helen's ruined it. I can't imagine she'd have a positive aura about her when she's sitting and chilling, most sane people would be climbing the walls to get away.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Craigy_CraigO

Why would that post be about you? I meant the members that literally bring her up in every topic, throw at least one insult about her looks into their block of text and speak to her fans in a condescending way.

Fair enough though, Ashleigh can be moody, but I suppose that's to be expected in an environment like that, Helen's ruined it. I can't imagine she'd have a positive aura about her when she's sitting and chilling, most sane people would be climbing the walls to get away.

Only because i just posted that she was brattish, so it sounded like your post was meant for me.

Pleased it wasn't about me tho. I hate it too when people throw insults about others looks etc. Glad we agree.

And yeah, who knows how any of us would react around that lot in a confined space for weeks. It's hard enough with people you know and love!

[Cold Sweat]

Originally Posted by Achilles

"brat" keeps being slung at Ashleigh and people don't even know what the word means.

Do you know who the BRATS are? - Helen, Winston, Ash, Mark, Steven etc

Brat means to behave badly, a label given to children.

Ashleigh is one of the most mature people in there, she reacts to what the REAL BRATS do

Theoretical question:

Could somebody stamping their feet and insisting on not saying sorry until they feel like it (even when unquestionably in the wrong) be considered as behaving like a brat?

[Creggle]

Originally Posted by Cold Sweat

Theoretical question:

Could somebody stamping their feet and insisting on not saying sorry until they feel like it (even when unquestionably in the wrong) be considered as behaving like a brat?

No, that's called being real yo.

[mrflibble]

Originally Posted by Achilles

"brat" keeps being slung at Ashleigh and people don't even know what the word means.

Do you know who the BRATS are? - Helen, Winston, Ash, Mark, Steven etc

Brat means to behave badly, a label given to children.

Ashleigh is one of the most mature people in there, she reacts to what the REAL BRATS do

Yep. When one of the brats don't get their way they cry and complain because they always get their way (see: Steven being nominated/all his bitterness, Helen trying to become ruler of the roost/crying when getting warnings, Mark for everything etc). Every time bad something happens to Ashleigh, she just deals with it and gets on with things. People keep calling her miserable, but tbh, who wouldn't be with those people in the house? I feel miserable watching them and living with them would be fecking awful. Also compare how she considers conversation fun and interesting and the others have to pull pranks to remain relevant. If they're not annoying someone or doing something childish they get bored.

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Achilles

"brat" keeps being slung at Ashleigh and people don't even know what the word means.

Do you know who the BRATS are? - Helen, Winston, Ash, Mark, Steven etc

Brat means to behave badly, a label given to children.

Ashleigh is one of the most mature people in there, she reacts to what the REAL BRATS do

You haven't seen her in the house then? She's been incredibly immature with her spite towards Ash simply to "hurt" Helen. She's treated her close friend Christopher like **** on a couple occasions and she's shown brat characteristics when things haven't gone her way or when she's simply decided to play "I'm greater than the rest, how dare they talk to me while I'm busy looking down at you all with my two friends". Hell her rant in the DR last show was incredibly "Bratty"...Come on man..

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

You haven't seen her in the house then? She's been incredibly immature with her spite towards Ash simply to "hurt" Helen. She's treated her close friend Christopher like **** on a couple occasions and she's shown brat characteristics when things haven't gone her way or when she's simply decided to play "I'm greater than the rest, how dare they talk to me while I'm busy looking down at you all with my two friends". Hell her rant in the DR last show was incredibly "Bratty"...Come on man..

Helen, Ash and Winston acted like brats when they went out the fire exit. They behaved badly and acted like moronic kids. BRATS. Ashleigh was the MATURE one who believe that they should have apologized to the house immediately after BB told them the whole house was being punished. They didn't apologize because they are brats. They took the piss and sang an apology because they are brats.

Ashleigh's plan to get Ash nominated was not being a brat. It was playing the game and attempting to get rid of a housemate she didn't like. She doesn't like him because he is a nasty twat.
Her tiff with Christopher was as a result of a stressed woman being wound up and losing her temper out of frustration.
Her rant in diary room was the same as if a victim of bullying lashes out at the people bullying them.

Not once was she being a brat. She is only labelled a brat because of her age and people who hate her use it as an insult. WRONGLY.