[Angelika]

Originally Posted by arista

Stupid Police Boss
and Nasty NHS
said.

I am appalled and disgusted by the actions of the medical staff, NHS,Police and the media for demonising the parents and causing huge distress to the family.
What a disaster for the family.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Angelika

I am appalled and disgusted by the actions of the medical staff, NHS,Police and the media for demonising the parents and causing huge distress to the family.
What a disaster for the family.

I'm also appalled and disgusted, but unfortunately, far from surprised. You are not "allowed" to go against those in positions of authority in this country. If you do so, you will be punished, in one way or another. If it can't be through legal channels, then the pack of hounds that is the British press will be set on you.

[Sticks]

Sorry but those parents should be charged with child endangerment and that boy bought back to the UK.

He should not get proton beam quack therapy because the UK doctors said he should not have it and we should trust their more informed decisions. The doctors here have more experience of treating cancer than those criminally irresponsible parents, and they deemed it inappropriate which is why they refused to allow it.

Lets hope there is a permanent order banning them for life from contacting all their children to make an example of them.

Children need to be protected from those who advocate quack alternative therapies which have not been proven.

[Kizzy]

Or.... they don't want us knowing that there are treatments they're too expensive.

It's not quackery http://www.christie.nhs.uk/about-the...m-therapy.aspx

[arista]

Originally Posted by Angelika

I am appalled and disgusted by the actions of the medical staff, NHS,Police and the media for demonising the parents and causing huge distress to the family.
What a disaster for the family.

Wrong
The media were only given info from Police and NHS


Now the Media has the Full Story

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Or.... they don't want us knowing that there are treatments they're too expensive.

It's not quackery http://www.christie.nhs.uk/about-the...m-therapy.aspx

Kizzy the dad wants to sell his 2nd home there
of course he Locked Away now

[Sticks]

The UK medical expert on the Radio 4 news said it was not the appropriate treatment for that condition, which makes it quack therapyif it were to be so used for that condition.

If Southampton PCT refused it and threatened child protection orders if the father kept harassing them about it, then they had good and excellent reasons to refuse it and to carry one with proven treatments, even if such treatments were to be just palliative until nature took it's course.

We should be on the side of the medical profession here, who know a lot more than this father about it.

As for that YouTube video, it should be taken down as it is justifying criminal action just like they, I hope, take down those videos from suicide bombers.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Kizzy the dad wants to sell his 2nd home there
of course he Locked Away now

Yes I'm aware of that but not all parents with sick kids have 2nd homes to flog do they?

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-0...ound-in-spain/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Sticks

The UK medical expert on the Radio 4 news said it was not the appropriate treatment for that condition, which makes it quack therapyif it were to be so used for that condition.

If Southampton PCT refused it and threatened child protection orders if the father kept harassing them about it, then they had good and excellent reasons to refuse it and to carry one with proven treatments, even if such treatments were to be just palliative until nature took it's course.

We should be on the side of the medical profession here, who know a lot more than this father about it.

As for that YouTube video, it should be taken down as it is justifying criminal action just like they, I hope, take down those videos from suicide bombers.

It is used and has previously been used for this condition, the family wished to fund the treatment privately I don't feel that effectively giving a child a death sentence is an acceptable level of care though so we don't agree here clearly.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Sticks

The UK medical expert on the Radio 4 news said it was not the appropriate treatment for that condition, which makes it quack therapyif it were to be so used for that condition.

If Southampton PCT refused it and threatened child protection orders if the father kept harassing them about it, then they had good and excellent reasons to refuse it and to carry one with proven treatments, even if such treatments were to be just palliative until nature took it's course.

We should be on the side of the medical profession here, who know a lot more than this father about it.

As for that YouTube video, it should be taken down as it is justifying criminal action just like they, I hope, take down those videos from suicide bombers.

I've been directly (myself and immediate family) on the receiving end of the NHS "professionals" getting it COMPLETELY WRONG, on major occasions, no less than 7 times in the last 5 years. They DON'T always "know better"... In fact, half of the time they have absolutely no idea what they're on about. I have very little trust in them now, and dread to think what might happen if one of my children got ill and I disagreed with one of their "experts".

[Sticks]

There was obviously a good reason why the doctors at Southampton believed it should not be used and considered the child protection order when the father kept insisting.

Those doctors know more about cancer treatment of children than these criminally irresponsible parents, or you and I.

We need to trust the judgement of proper experts.

[Kizzy]

I agree with you in theory but when you see others being treated successfully in other countries I can't blame parents for seeking treatment if they have the means to do so.

If the alternative is death then where's the harm?

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Sticks

Sorry but those parents should be charged with child endangerment and that boy bought back to the UK.

He should not get proton beam quack therapy because the UK doctors said he should not have it and we should trust their more informed decisions. The doctors here have more experience of treating cancer than those criminally irresponsible parents, and they deemed it inappropriate which is why they refused to allow it.

Lets hope there is a permanent order banning them for life from contacting all their children to make an example of them.

Children need to be protected from those who advocate quack alternative therapies which have not been proven.

You sound like you were part of Aysher's medical team with such intimate knowledge of his care. Produce your evidence showing Proton Beam Therapy to be quackery, lets examine it!

Till then, I believe the parents have a right to choose and the medical specialist should have referred the child for a second opinion as soon as it was requested by the parents.

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Sticks

There was obviously a good reason why the doctors at Southampton believed it should not be used and considered the child protection order when the father kept insisting.

Those doctors know more about cancer treatment of children than these criminally irresponsible parents, or you and I.

We need to trust the judgement of proper experts.

No, we need to question the treatment offered and demand proper answers.
In time the doctors concerned may be brought before a peer review.

[Sticks]

What happens in other countries is not relevant here. For a treatment to be condone here it must be approved of by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence

Then it needs to be approved of by the PCT. Let us not forget that there are other patients and the NHS is not a bottomless pit. Hard choices have to be made for the good of the whole

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Sticks

What happens in other countries is not relevant here. For a treatment to be condone here it must be approved of by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence

Then it needs to be approved of by the PCT. Let us not forget that there are other patients and the NHS is not a bottomless pit. Hard choices have to be made for the good of the whole

Which comes back to my original point that it could simply be a funding issue.
It is relevant as the focus is was there a treatment available... There is.

Where it is is irrelevant, it isn't unusual for people to be sent away for treatment.

this practice has been approved and used previously, I posted a link to a facility currently in use.

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I've been directly (myself and immediate family) on the receiving end of the NHS "professionals" getting it COMPLETELY WRONG, on major occasions, no less than 7 times in the last 5 years. They DON'T always "know better"... In fact, half of the time they have absolutely no idea what they're on about. I have very little trust in them now, and dread to think what might happen if one of my children got ill and I disagreed with one of their "experts".

And I agree with you wholeheartedly!

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm also appalled and disgusted, but unfortunately, far from surprised. You are not "allowed" to go against those in positions of authority in this country. If you do so, you will be punished, in one way or another. If it can't be through legal channels, then the pack of hounds that is the British press will be set on you.

How right you are - it does of course depend on personal and or friends experiences of the NHS in this country ! for those of us who find it difficult to get a doctors app nevermind a diagnosis ( and people i've known have died due to lack of proper attention by doctors) and then when you get a diagnosis will the NHS fund the treatment you need ? If they won't any family would do the very best they can to get the best treatment for their loved one. Seems to me we are being given some of the facts in this case BUT these parents should not be removed from their child ! The police are defending their actions - but .......
Everyone on this forum should listen to the Andrew Landsley rap by NxtGen
( bit dated) but so true of whats happening to the NHS in this country. Check out his Torie rap to

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Sticks

There was obviously a good reason why the doctors at Southampton believed it should not be used and considered the child protection order when the father kept insisting.

Those doctors know more about cancer treatment of children than these criminally irresponsible parents, or you and I.

We need to trust the judgement of proper experts.

Most likely scenario? High cost of treatment vs low chance of success, so they would rather "make him comfortable" and let him die. No parent in their right mind would accept that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Sticks

What happens in other countries is not relevant here. For a treatment to be condone here it must be approved of by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence

Then it needs to be approved of by the PCT. Let us not forget that there are other patients and the NHS is not a bottomless pit. Hard choices have to be made for the good of the whole

Are you a parent? I'm guessing not. Because if you think I would allow one if my daughters to die "for the good of the whole", you are massively mistaken. I would watch all of you burn. ****... I would light the match.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Are you a parent? I'm guessing not. Because if you think I would allow one if my daughters to die "for the good of the whole", you are massively mistaken. I would watch all of you burn. ****... I would light the match.

Me also for my son....

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Sticks

What happens in other countries is not relevant here. For a treatment to be condone here it must be approved of by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence

Then it needs to be approved of by the PCT. Let us not forget that there are other patients and the NHS is not a bottomless pit. Hard choices have to be made for the good of the whole

Yes the NHS isn't a bottomless pit, hence why many treatments are not available on it, even if they are successful treatments. But you are right about choices, hard choices do have to be made, and the parents have a choice about how they want to treat their child and they have chosen something that the NHS does not and will not offer. They are in a horrid situation, they are acting to try and save their child in any means they can because they do not want to lose him and time is of the essence. That does not make them criminals and you should be ashamed at yourself and your absolutely disgusting viewpoint on this matter.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Yes the NHS isn't a bottomless pit, hence why many treatments are not available on it, even if they are successful treatments. But you are right about choices, hard choices do have to be made, and the parents have a choice about how they want to treat their child and they have chosen something that the NHS does not and will not offer. They are in a horrid situation, they are acting to try and save their child in any means they can because they do not want to lose him and time is of the essence. That does not make them criminals and you should be ashamed at yourself and your absolutely disgusting viewpoint on this matter.

Yes That Police Boss
has it all wrong
and he is standing by his actions


No Neglect
at all.
They just want a better treatment than the NHS can give

[lily.]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Here's his dad's explanation;

Youtube video

Very interesting Lee. Thanks for posting.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. That man, with everything he is going through right now, has had to make a 10 minute video to explain how he tried to make a decision for his son's health, one he was happy to fun with his own money, and UK doctors stood in his way.

Unfortunately I know from close family experience that doctors and consultants don't know everything. They don't always know best. They don't always get it right. They're only human. Nobody ought to put them on a pedestal. They're educated professionals, but they're not above getting it wrong.

Assuming Mr King is telling the truth in this video (and I have no reason to suspect otherwise), the professionals in charge of Ashya's care should have listened to his concerns, and offered advice, but they should not have forbidden him from taking his son to a different country to seek alternative treatment. The child protection laws should not have that much power. The family were planning to use their own money to fund a treatment which is available elsewhere. In my view the doctors here should have allowed the parents to discharge the child 'against medical advice'.

Social workers and police ought to use their time sorting out the all the junkie messes we see on our streets every day who are dragging up their children, instead of going after the family of a very sick child who wish to take extraordinary measures to save his life.

Also, I completely understand his reluctance to use high doses of radiotherapy. I have seen the damage that does first hand (to an adult) and it should only be used as a last resort.