[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by XmasTurtle

See I go with the other coin. People do change, but more because they learn new things and their needs and wants grow/alter over the years. The initial core of them is still there that you knew and liked, but when new situations arise people adapt themselves (not always consciously) to it.

I look back at myself and I know I have changed, I used to be quite shy, reserved and generally a nice person who was a bit of a doormat, over the years from people taking advantage of that I have become a lot more blunt, closed down and to be honest a bit of a royal ****. The core of me is still in there.


Over time also you do "outgrow" some friends and they "outgrow" you, not in a bad way, but you just become different people with different needs, wants and perspectives. That is why you will have only have a handful of very good friends in life that will be there at all times, those are the ones you want to look after even if they are going through a phase of being a person you do not like (it's your job as their friend to try and reign them back in or at least make them aware of what they are doing/being like).

I agree.

We are all - to an extent - the product of what life makes us. I too have changed because of being taken advantage of throughout my life.

I have always had a (too) giving nature and was always ruled by my heart rather than my head. I always helped anyone, and I used to be 'oh so passionate' about causes - especially 'lost' ones - and had a tendency to fight for the 'underdog'.

Well, now I believe in the adage that; "No good turn ever went unpunished".

Because 99% of people I have helped turned out to be turds, and most of the 'good deeds' I have ever done came back to haunt and actually hurt me.

With one notable exception, no money which I have ever lent to 'friends' (some quite substantial amounts) have ever been 'voluntarily' repaid. Nothing I have ever lent to 'friends' in need who asked to borrow them - from new books, DVD collections, tools, even a very expensive drill - have ever been 'voluntarily' returned.

People do change as they grow older - and not always for the best - and we all 're-invent' ourselves or become 'other' types with different outlooks and attitudes at different stages of our lives.

This sadly, includes some - but thankfully, not all - 'friends'.

[Josy]

I had a best friend from nursery and we stayed best friends throughout both primary school and high school and we were really really close to the point even our parents were really friendly because we were always together but she started changing at the end of high school, like we weren't exactly quiet teenagers but she started hanging around with people that were lets just say even more questionable lol anyway I had already started seeing my partner at this point so my friend and I had already slightly drifted apart anyway.

She ended up marrying a junkie (from the group of people I mentioned above) and it wasn't long before she was on it too, I see her around the shops and that when I visit the town and we say hello but she's not the person I was close too, she's basically dead behind the eyes IMO and to see it saddens me but oh well, people make their own choices in life don't they.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I agree.

We are all - to an extent - the product of what life makes us. I too have changed because of being taken advantage of throughout my life.

I have always had a (too) giving nature and was always ruled by my heart rather than my head. I always helped anyone, and I used to be 'oh so passionate' about causes - especially 'lost' ones - and had a tendency to fight for the 'underdog'.

Well, now I believe in the adage that; "No good turn ever went unpunished".

Because 99% of people I have helped turned out to be turds, and most of the 'good deeds' I have ever done came back to haunt and actually hurt me.

With one notable exception, no money which I have ever lent to 'friends' (some quite substantial amounts) have ever been 'voluntarily' repaid. Nothing I have ever lent to 'friends' in need who asked to borrow them - from new books, DVD collections, tools, even a very expensive drill - have ever been 'voluntarily' returned.

People do change as they grow older - and not always for the best - and we all 're-invent' ourselves or become 'other' types with different outlooks and attitudes at different stages of our lives.

This sadly, includes some - but thankfully, not all - 'friends'.

..yeah, I do think that circumstances/environment etc do rule certain things and certain behaviours etc to an extent...but I also think that if someone does 'take advantage'..if we feel that..?..then really it would just be to make some decisions as to whether we wanted to keep that friendship, resolve things but not for us ourselves to change because of someone else's behaviour toward us when it's they're behaviour that is questionable, not our own etc...because then we wouldn't be being true to ourselves and who we are and we would be allowing them to take something good about ourselves/something trusting away from us..?..it just wouldn't make sense to me to allow someone to do that...


...hmmmm, I guess lending money to friends is a tricky one...also because in many cases, just being in the position of feeling that you need to borrow money could mean that you maybe can't pay it back or would find it difficult and a struggle so to me that would be like increasing that person or friend's debt..(obviously I'm generalising..).my dad always said..never lend anything that you can't afford to give and that's something that I also believe in...that if I was in a position to help and felt that I wanted to, then I would but I would never expect any financial repayment because then I would be adding to that friend's debt..and also leaving myself open to feeling let down when the decision to lend was mine...just to know that it had helped would be the thing... or maybe I would see if I could help in other ways that didn't involve money etc...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah, I do think that circumstances/environment etc do rule certain things and certain behaviours etc to an extent...but I also think that if someone does 'take advantage'..if we feel that..?..then really it would just be to make some decisions as to whether we wanted to keep that friendship, resolve things but not for us ourselves to change because of someone else's behaviour toward us when it's they're behaviour that is questionable, not our own etc...because then we wouldn't be being true to ourselves and who we are and we would be allowing them to take something good about ourselves/something trusting away from us..?..it just wouldn't make sense to me to allow someone to do that...


...hmmmm, I guess lending money to friends is a tricky one...also because in many cases, just being in the position of feeling that you need to borrow money could mean that you maybe can't pay it back or would find it difficult and a struggle so to me that would be like increasing that person or friend's debt..(obviously I'm generalising..).my dad always said..never lend anything that you can't afford to give and that's something that I also believe in...that if I was in a position to help and felt that I wanted to, then I would but I would never expect any financial repayment because then I would be adding to that friend's debt..and also leaving myself open to feeling let down when the decision to lend was mine...just to know that it had helped would be the thing... or maybe I would see if I could help in other ways that didn't involve money etc...

I guess some of us are just a lot more 'gullible' than others - I know that genuinely I have been -- time and time again. I am blessed with some good friends - true friends - who have been my friends for years, some since school, but I have also known lots of turds who were supposed to be friends, but who just took advantage of my nature and gullibility.

I wouldn't say it has changed who I am as a person, more that because I'm now resigned to the fact that I can't change myself, I do not socialise as much except with my true friends, so have changed my social customs.

As for the 'money' aspect of lending, I have saved the home of one long time 'friend' from being repossessed, by providing an informal interest free 'bridging' loan (because he could no longer get credit) until he received some capital he was due to. Well he received the capital but then avoided me and never paid me back, even though he took a luxury holiday and went on a spending spree etc. I tried all civil, polite ways to get him to repay me, but eventually had to threaten him with court action before he paid just under half of it back.

I never received the rest but wrote it off as 'experience'. He was bitter after this and I had lost a 'friend', made any enemy, and lost thousands into the bargain - all because I tried to give help to a 'friend' who asked me for it.

I honestly have never lent money to friends who could not 'afford' to pay it back, and expected it back (never asked for it back in fact) because I have helped them in other, more subtle ways, such as employing them and overpaying them when I didn't really need anyone.

When I have had bad times - as I have - my true friends have always been there for me, but I was really referring to the 'non true' friends in my post Ammi - people who have changed over the years, and some people do change - or at least in my experience.