[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by the truth

I believe you are wrong. this is a problem with one specific religion , it has nothing to do with other religions at all. that must be made very clear. Christianity and islam are wholly differnt and in many ways its becoming clear they are worlds apart and perhaps cannot be expected to live together in peace

I didn't say the problem was because of other religions, I said that islam is as messed up as the other religions but worse.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I didn't say the problem was because of other religions, I said that islam is as messed up as the other religions but worse.

nonsense. its a totally different set of rules. you may as well compare atheism to islam....or jedi to buddhism....totally different. at its heart islam doesnt believe in forgiveness or redemption which is at the core of Christs teachings........and Jesus said to the people, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, one by one they all walked away and he said to the woman now go and sin no more.......forgiveness and redemption

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by the truth

nonsense. its a totally different set of rules. you may as well compare atheism to islam....or jedi to buddhism....totally different. at its heart islam doesnt believe in forgiveness or redemption which is at the core of Christs teachings........and Jesus said to the people, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, one by one they all walked away and he said to the woman now go and sin no more.......forgiveness and redemption

I'm sure none of the major religions like being compared to each other, but to me there are more similarities than differences.

However this discussion is for another thread, otherwise it will derail this one.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I'm sure none of the major religions like being compared to each other, but to me there are more similarities than differences.

However this discussion is for another thread, otherwise it will derail this one.

there are more difference than similarities. pls elaborate how you come to your conclusion

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by the truth

there are more difference than similarities. pls elaborate how you come to your conclusion

I am speaking about islam, christianity and judaism. They all have a main prophet, they have wisemen or male priests or some such who interpret their god's plan. They all only worship one god (usually referred to as a "he"). They've got kinda primitive beliefs (not meant as an insult, just that their belief systems are ancient and were formed before our modern understanding of this world and the universe). They all have a holy day during the week, they have masses with rituals, they believe that prayers offered to their respective god will in some way better their own lives. I could go on with this list, but you get the idea, yes? You see how they are similar now?

[Brother Leon]

Don't worry Claudia. I get what you mean and it's a very valid point. Don't let ignorance frustrate you

[the truth]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I am speaking about islam, christianity and judaism. They all have a main prophet, they have wisemen or male priests or some such who interpret their god's plan. They all only worship one god (usually referred to as a "he"). They've got kinda primitive beliefs (not meant as an insult, just that their belief systems are ancient and were formed before our modern understanding of this world and the universe). They all have a holy day during the week, they have masses with rituals, they believe that prayers offered to their respective god will in some way better their own lives. I could go on with this list, but you get the idea, yes? You see how they are similar now?

primitive? love peace enlghtnemnet redemption forgiveness etc these are timeless values of Christs teachings NOT of the curan. these are not primitive they are infinite. the religions are infinitely different. how many Christians do you see preaching hate and war on the streets recruiting suicide bombers in their churches? they are wholly different religions. this is a problem with 1 religion only, islam.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Don't worry Claudia. I get what you mean and it's a very valid point. Don't let ignorance frustrate you

Yes I wont let the ignorance of branding all religions the same frustrate me. ps the mass murder of innocents is NOt a laughing matter, shame on you

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Don't worry Claudia. I get what you mean and it's a very valid point. Don't let ignorance frustrate you

Thank you

Originally Posted by the truth

primitive? love peace enlghtnemnet redemption forgiveness etc these are timeless values of Christs teachings NOT of the curan. these are not primitive they are infinite. the religions are infinitely different. how many Christians do you see preaching hate and war on the streets recruiting suicide bombers in their churches? they are wholly different religions. this is a problem with 1 religion only, islam.

I'll chat about it another time with you

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by the truth

Yes I wont let the ignorance of branding all religions the same frustrate me. ps the mass murder of innocents is NOt a laughing matter, shame on you

She didn't say they are all the same though, did she?

She simply said they are all similar. At the end of the day, all religion is about submission. It's not difficult to grasp what she means.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

She didn't say they are all the same though, did she?

She simply said they are all similar. At the end of the day, all religion is about submission. It's not difficult to grasp what she means.

generalized nonsense. all religions are not about that at all and all religions are different. youre generalizing about billions bordering on discrimination. thats as silly as saying all americans are about this or all europeans are about that....its mindless talk....theres billions of different people 100s of relgions all with different rules and beliefs. i choose Christianity, I believe its wholly different and wholly superior

[the truth]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Thank you



I'll chat about it another time with you

will you? how big of you.....i may not have the time then sorry

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Yes you are right they had it coming all right.... For putting their pencils on a piece of paper and making a few shapes they deserved to have someone come into their place of work and empty half a Kalashnikov magazine into them.

I did not say "had it coming", that implies a moral imperative, or karma (if you believe in that), getting just deserts, being punished.

I said "Brought it on themselves", it is more similar to "If you play with fire then you may get burned", a better expression could be "Author of their own misfortune", For instance trying to show a dog you love it, by petting it, even though that animal has a known reputation for biting, and getting bit anyway. Did they deserve to get bit? Absolutely not, did they have it coming, no way, but did they bring it upon themselves, yes, they were told the dog had a reputation and warned to keep clear, but they did not heed the warning, even if their motives were pure.

Getting back to what happened in France, on the today programme on BBC Radio 4, they had a man from High Wycombe, who was passionately angry at what the cartoonists had been doing, by insulting the Holy Prophet, and none of those killed were innocent. This man insisted that nobody should be allowed to insult The Holy Prophet.

That interview was telling of the hurt these cartoons caused to many Muslims.

It is known, has been known since Salman Rushdie published the Satanic Verses, how some Muslims may react if they feel that their Holy prophet is insulted, with passion and violence.

Remember the Danish cartoons, and the violence that came with that? Remember how in 2011 that magazine was fire-bombed

With those examples, it was predictable what kind of reaction would be engendered by publishing those cartoons. Just like my earlier example, is it really wise or expedient to take a stick to a wasp nest in order to remove it?

By insisting on freedom of speech and publishing anyway, when it would have been known what reaction would be generated amongst passionate people, some of whom have a propensity to violence, they were proverbially playing with fire. Very noble but was that really such a smart idea?

Let us go to another example, serving soldiers were told not to wear uniforms when off duty, because it pinpoints them out to terrorists, such as the IRA during the 80's and 90's. There was one attack in the 90's at a mainline railway station, maybe Reading, when two soldiers were slaughters in a gun attack. So NOT wearing uniforms when off duty is a wise and expedient precaution.

Likewise, curbing what cartoonists draw an publish seems like a sensible precaution against the lone wolves that our intelligence services admit they can not keep track of.

[arista]

there was a Car Chase in the Rain

with a reported Hostage with
the Brothers - If the reports are correct?

Now a Town is blocked off
3 Helicopters , one is military
more reports of 2 people dead.
No one is able to get in
Police have blocked all exits in to the town.
Snipers ready

http://news.sky.com/story/1404787/fr...-hostage-siege



Live on SkyNewsHD

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

primitive? love peace enlghtnemnet redemption forgiveness etc these are timeless values of Christs teachings NOT of the curan. these are not primitive they are infinite. the religions are infinitely different. how many Christians do you see preaching hate and war on the streets recruiting suicide bombers in their churches? they are wholly different religions. this is a problem with 1 religion only, islam.

Today? Not many, though there are some fairly extreme organisations (just not well enough backed to be any threat). 500 years ago? Lots. 1000 years ago? Pretty much every church. Christianity was used to create an empire. It was the beating heart of war drums for over a thousand years, from the Crusades to the colonisation of the Americas. It's a fairly placid religion now mostly but that's because it has reached middle age and is more relaxed / reflective. Remember that Islam is a much newer religion. Still "in its angry teens", if you will. That's the only real difference. That and, unfortunately, that there were only wooden boats and swords (and maybe muskets) when Christianity had its hissy fit, but Islam has assault rifles and bombs to play with.

However, religion is only ever a mere tool. The Roman Empire, The Crusades, the expansion of the British Empire - all of these used (I'm afraid, The Truth, murderous) Christianity to achieve their non-religious goals of power.

This latest attack has only confirmed for me that there is something seriously ****ing sinister and unfathomable going on at the moment. These men were well trained soldiers. Not the usual gun-toting amateurs. Witnesses describe men who handled their firearms and moved in a way that suggested significant formal training in weapons and tactics. And who were considered dispensable, despite being valuable assets (again, not like the usual disposable kids normally used in terrorist attacks). All this because they were supposedly "offended by satirical cartoons"? No. It's nonsense. There is a clear and widespread global agenda to spark a twisted civil war across Western nations. I have no idea what the end goal of that agenda is. Thus far it makes very little sense. What I do know is, that it's so well orchestrated, pulling just the right strings here and pressing the right buttons there, that I'm damn sure it's not being planned out by people in dusty middle eastern caves. There is more to it. Much more. Something much more terrifying - something that involves all of the "major players".

Before anyone starts I am not defending terrorists or murderers or acts like this. They are abhorrent,sickening, a horrendous waste of the lives of people who had nothing to do with any of this and were just trying to make light in a perpetually dark world.

I just think it's absolutely tragic that the people who selected Charlie Hebdo as a target and orchestrated this barbarity (note: NOT MUSLIMS, NOT ALL MIDDLE EASTERN, NOT CLASSIC TERRORISTS, PROBABLY A SELECTION OF MEN VERY EXPENSIVE SUITS) will never face any sort of justice. We're all being whacked with a great big wooden stick (Islamic extremism) but instead of punishing the bully wielding the stick, we just shout "argh! Burn that stick!! Burn ALL the sticks!"

Ranting a bit. Sorry. It's not like I think anything can be done about this ****. We just have to duck our heads and hope we don't get caught in the crossfire and that the world won't be too unbearable when the dust settles. I won't lie - I'm selfishly glad that I live somewhere that's less likely to see the worst of this madness.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Sticks

"First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!"

Sorry Sticks, but this is just mere pedanticism. “Brought it on themselves” and “They had it coming” are merely different ways of saying the same thing by common usage definition, ie; their own actions (in drawing and publishing the cartoon) are causal, and being murdered is the result.

“Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.”

Yes, Wasps are creatures who like Rats, and Flies, co-exist - for no logical reason IMHO - with Mankind on this Earth. Their capability to inflict pain and suffering or even death is well known so we leave them alone, shun them, avoid them. They build their nests in the garden or elsewhere and we have our homes, and most of the time peaceful co-existence is possible. But wasps are not content with their own space, they want our spaces – our garages, our loftspaces, even inside our homes, and they keep invading our spaces to inflict pain, suffering and death on innocent people, and it becomes necessary to ‘zap’ them individually – to prevent more human suffering and death you understand?

Sometimes, however, this does not deter them and the pain and suffering and deaths to innocent humans not only continues but the frequency increases. Then we have no other choice but to trace their nests to destroy it and stop all this terror at source. Sometimes, when we haven’t been vigilant or we are have been apathetic, we find out that wasps have even built nests in our spaces.

But you’re absolutely right Sticks, ‘hitting it with a big stick’ isn’t the way to treat a wasps nest. I think the expert exterminators kill them all by gassing or suchlike. Personally I don’t give a feck as long as the ‘orrible bastards are gone and we can all enjoy our lives in relative peace without fear of being harmed or dying through being stung.

Feck me – I do ramble on. I forgot what I was on about there for a moment. Oh yes, Wasps.

“Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.”

You are a gifted writer Sticks, so I am really surprised to find you trying to excuse forced censorship of artistic expression, freedom of speech and literary freedom by the use of intimidation, murder and violence by terrorists, in your comments above.

You really are a skilled writer, because you lace your comments with subliminally emotive words such as; ‘Offending Islam’, ‘meted out’ (a most benign little phrase, evocative of ‘sharing out’ as in food rations or money, or ‘dispensing’ as in ‘dispensing justice’, which subliminally suggests that the murders in cold blood by these devils of innocent people was lawful, fit, and proper) ‘Holy Prophet’ (again a very emotive combination of words) and ‘respect and restraint’.

The above is much a much more innocuous way than saying; ‘An author, living in a liberal democracy wrote a great novel of fiction in which he expressed certain ideas to “provoke the imagination” and as a result, evil Islamic Fundamentalists irrationally and unjustly declared a Fatwa on him, which led to the despicable cold-blooded murders of an Editor, a Publisher, and a Translator, and to the death of hundreds of people in world-wide riots, and the burning of books from “Bolton to Islamabad” in some Orwellian dystopian nightmare.

“This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?”

They were probably thinking what billions of sane rational people around the world are thinking; that evil despotic minorities should never, ever, be allowed to subjugate decent moral majorities by murder and violent intimidation.

“That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.”

You are condemning the poor victims, and inferring that their cold-blooded execution by these evil demons is justified because they published a cartoon. But again, Sticks, everything you write could be construed as thinly veiled ‘terrorist apologetics’. Where is your condemnation of these barbaric murdering demons? Not one word.

“For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.
On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.“

Yes; “we all accept and abide by that rule” but this is a rule on a Forum which we have elected to join and therefore, by default we accept such rules. But outside this specific forum, on other forums, or in the great democratic countries of the world in general where “text speak” is permitted, we can freely use it if we CHOOSE to without fear of TIBB moderators seeking us out and murdering us in cold blood.

Your analogy is ludicrous Sticks.

“In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!”

I don’t fully understand what you are trying to say here Sticks, I really don’t. But I will say; that we also have man-made written laws against Murder and Intimidation, as well as universal unwritten laws on morality, and these barbaric, inhuman demons breach every law under both codes by their continuous bombing, maiming and slaughter of innocent people.

I just wish that all those on here who are quick to criticise myself and others for our ‘small-minded, bigoted views’ in condemnation of these atrocities, were as quick and scathing of the bastards perpetrating them. Unfortunately, the ones making the loudest noises on here against us are the very ones whose silence on the terrorists and terrorism is the most notable.

[arista]

No one can photo this Live Event
so they could Kill them both
without any cameras on it

[arista]

[arista]

Getting ready for the Final Bloodbath

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by arista

Getting ready for the Final Bloodbath

Just want to say a sincere thanks Arista for all the hard work you do on all threads in bringing us all these articles and updates. It's better than having the news channel on all day. Thanks - and I mean this.

As a footnote, let's hope your reported casualty is one of them and not some innocent cop or civilian.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Thanks Nedusa - I keep thinking I'll quit and not bother posting at all, but I'm not made like that and can't help it.

No Kirk... Please do not stop posting, your posts are well written,well researched and are very informative.

KUTGW





.

[Cherie]

The death of the police woman yesterday has now been linked to this. Some guy who had an appointment at the Printing Company where they have taken a hostage came face to face with one of the terrorists (he thought he was a policeman as he was dressed in black and had body armour and was carrying a gun), the guy told him to leave and apparently told him they didn't kill civilians. Lets hope that is the case with the hostage.

[Kizzy]

'I just wish that all those on here who are quick to criticise myself and others for our ‘small-minded, bigoted views’ in condemnation of these atrocities, were as quick and scathing of the bastards perpetrating them. Unfortunately, the ones making the loudest noises on here against us are the very ones whose silence on the terrorists and terrorism is the most notable.'

I don't think it's 'us and them' like this kirk, we all condemn them that goes without saying surely who would find their actions justified but other terrorists?...
What is being voiced is a need for perspective here in a world of muslims what fraction are terrorists in the west?
If we treat British muslims as aliens then that just feeds animosity and distrust.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No Kirk... Please do not stop posting, your posts are well written,well researched and are very informative.

KUTGW

.

Thanks Nedusa, and those are the exact adjectives I'd use to describe your posts. I am genuinely honoured to have you as a 'friend'.

[arista]

Terror Suspects 'Ready To Die'

http://news.sky.com/story/1404787/pa...s-ready-to-die