[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by MB.

It kind of is though, isn't it? Well, that could be argued, at least. I thought the point of Charlie Hebdo is that it isn't afraid to take swipes at any group, Jewish people and Christians included.

Yep, spot on. Its a very satirical magazine and disliked by many across France but like someone else here said, "we have a right to offend and a right to be offended". If we don't like it we simply don't buy it.

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

Good for her!She's brave.What needs to happen really is every newspaper needs to print these cartoons at once all accross Europe.A team effort type thing.Then not just one is singled out.Show these terrorists that they can't use bully tactics to oppress.

I agree. But not just across Europe, how about the whole world joins in? That would show the f......s

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by arista

Look while she sells it
Armed Police can covert watch over her.

But after that
she is on her own?



I am sorry but you are saying sell it
then get killed

And you are saying what,? cower in corners and let terrorisrts dictate what we say and do?

[arista]

ITV1 London news just shown a sign outside of a shop
for the mag.
But only the pavement and sign
not the shop that will soon sell the mag

[arista]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

And you are saying what,? cower in corners and let terrorisrts dictate what we say and do?

No I am not


I am saying there is Brave and Stupid

So long as she knows she could go on a hit list

Its Up to her if she wants to sell them
maybe its the only way to make money
with bigger profits
but with a Security Risk.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The reasoning as far as I understand it has to do with it being against "the rules" to worship physical idols in Islam (e.g. The crucifix / statues of Mary in Christianity) and creating physical images of a prophet is inadvertently encouraging idolry. Also the arrogance of the artist assuming that they "know the face" of these holy figures to be able to draw them is apparently offensive.

Again though I am totally with you on religion, it's something I seriously struggle with when it comes to all organised religions. General spirituality, sure, I get it, there's much more to the universe than we know or are capable of understanding. But these rigid faiths with actual holy characters and people communicating with specific supernatural beings? I just can't get my head around how so many otherwise intelligent and educated people manage to convince themselves that it's anything more than a collection of morality tales written by other human beings a long time ago. To explain the unknown, to offer guidance. I even get WHY they created these stories. I absolutely cannot understand, though, why on earth people are still going along with it.

All I can assume is that the power of suggestion on a young mind is incredibly powerful for most people and most are brought into their churches from birth. But then, I was sent to church and Sunday school as a child and remember, aged around 6, just sitting and clear as a bell it dawning on me: "hold on a second... None of this makes any ****ing sense!". But then, when I went home and stated as much, I didn't have parents who turned around and tried to reinforce the nonsense. My mum was always a big "don't really know!" and my dad is a very much EX Catholic, although he had never shared his non-belief with me until I stated it for myself. I guess when it's reinforced in the home, every day, it really does seep right into every corner of a young mind.

Adults turning to religion seems to almost always be after a trauma or because they have a life that is generally going badly and they need something to latch onto.

.

[arista]

This women is not alone

BBC1 London News
has a interview with the West London
French Women Bookshop owner who is also selling it
she will soon be on TV in the next 20mins

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The reasoning as far as I understand it has to do with it being against "the rules" to worship physical idols in Islam (e.g. The crucifix / statues of Mary in Christianity) and creating physical images of a prophet is inadvertently encouraging idolry. Also the arrogance of the artist assuming that they "know the face" of these holy figures to be able to draw them is apparently offensive.

Again though I am totally with you on religion, it's something I seriously struggle with when it comes to all organised religions. General spirituality, sure, I get it, there's much more to the universe than we know or are capable of understanding. But these rigid faiths with actual holy characters and people communicating with specific supernatural beings? I just can't get my head around how so many otherwise intelligent and educated people manage to convince themselves that it's anything more than a collection of morality tales written by other human beings a long time ago. To explain the unknown, to offer guidance. I even get WHY they created these stories. I absolutely cannot understand, though, why on earth people are still going along with it.

All I can assume is that the power of suggestion on a young mind is incredibly powerful for most people and most are brought into their churches from birth. But then, I was sent to church and Sunday school as a child and remember, aged around 6, just sitting and clear as a bell it dawning on me: "hold on a second... None of this makes any ****ing sense!". But then, when I went home and stated as much, I didn't have parents who turned around and tried to reinforce the nonsense. My mum was always a big "don't really know!" and my dad is a very much EX Catholic, although he had never shared his non-belief with me until I stated it for myself. I guess when it's reinforced in the home, every day, it really does seep right into every corner of a young mind.

Adults turning to religion seems to almost always be after a trauma or because they have a life that is generally going badly and they need something to latch onto.

Almost always? Really? That has not been my experience.

Respectfully, TS, suggesting people are a bit simple because they don't believe the same things that you do is a but much. I don't mind that you don't believe what I do, it doesn't affect me liking you as a forum member and I will make no effort whatsoever to make you try to understand my faith, it's totally your decision. Neither will I comment that you seem "otherwise educated and intelligent" but are really a bit dim because you don't have faith. I'd be willing to pitch my intelligence and education against anyone's, and yet I have faith. I can't explain it, I don't want to defend it and frankly I don't think I should have to.

And on topic... Islamic art is generally based on geometric designs and calligraphy. They don't hold with picturing living animals and people and in some Islamic pictures that do depict living creatures there will be a line through its neck representing it being dead. It's their thing... I do think they should have more of a sense of humour about it if its a non-Muslim producing the picture. Having said that, depicting their Prophet when it's strictly forbidden is a little provocative. Not that I think that should raise anything more than a protest and definitely not violence and killing.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Almost always? Really? That has not been my experience.

Respectfully, TS, suggesting people are a bit simple because they don't believe the same things that you do is a but much. I don't mind that you don't believe what I do, it doesn't affect me liking you as a forum member and I will make no effort whatsoever to make you try to understand my faith, it's totally your decision. Neither will I comment that you seem "otherwise educated and intelligent" but are really a bit dim because you don't have faith. I'd be willing to pitch my intelligence and education against anyone's, and yet I have faith. I can't explain it, I don't want to defend it and frankly I don't think I should have to.

And on topic... Islamic art is generally based on geometric designs and calligraphy. They don't hold with picturing living animals and people and in some Islamic pictures that do depict living creatures there will be a line through its neck representing it being dead. It's their thing... I do think they should have more of a sense of humour about it if its a non-Muslim producing the picture. Having said that, depicting their Prophet when it's strictly forbidden is a little provocative. Not that I think that should raise anything more than a protest and definitely not violence and killing.

I wasn't trying to say that it makes people simple, I probably should have left out the word "otherwise", my point was really that it baffles me more than anything else. I don't expect you or anyone to try to explain it, I've had a lot of discussions about it with a lot of people and I'm still left none the wiser; I know that it isn't logical, but then I'm reliably informed that, of course, that's what makes it "faith" in the first place. I also know that there are people more intelligent than either of us that believe, and that don't believe, and of course the same at the other end of the scale - some genuinely dim people who blindly follow what's been taught to them whether that's religion or atheism or just never having thought about it either way. It's certainly not an issue of intelligence or education.

However, yes, in answer to the first question "almost always" is in my experience accurate. Not for people who have been raised in a vaguely Christian environment but just weren't sure or slightly on the fence finding "true" faith or becoming more actively religious: but genuinely non-religious adults "finding god" is something that seems to be very rare unless they had some reason to be looking for God. Or looking for something, at least. Peace, maybe. Answers. The three most common causes of a massive turnaround in stance on religion are bereavement, serious illness such as cancer (facing one's own mortality), and addiction.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I wasn't trying to say that it makes people simple, I probably should have left out the word "otherwise", my point was really that it baffles me more than anything else. I don't expect you or anyone to try to explain it, I've had a lot of discussions about it with a lot of people and I'm still left none the wiser; I know that it isn't logical, but then I'm reliably informed that, of course, that's what makes it "faith" in the first place. I also know that there are people more intelligent than either of us that believe, and that don't believe, and of course the same at the other end of the scale - some genuinely dim people who blindly follow what's been taught to them whether that's religion or atheism or just never having thought about it either way. It's certainly not an issue of intelligence or education.

However, yes, in answer to the first question "almost always" is in my experience accurate. Not for people who have been raised in a vaguely Christian environment but just weren't sure or slightly on the fence finding "true" faith or becoming more actively religious: but genuinely non-religious adults "finding god" is something that seems to be very rare unless they had some reason to be looking for God. Or looking for something, at least. Peace, maybe. Answers. The three most common causes of a massive turnaround in stance on religion are bereavement, serious illness such as cancer (facing one's own mortality), and addiction.

Thanks for the clarification TS.

I see what you mean about people finding God in times of crisis. Of course there is an outside possibility that at the darkest times, it's God who finds them.