[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why

when has not knowing about religion ever caused anyone an issue?

Give me a break

Let's pose the question another way; What about all the thousands of conflicts and wars which have been fought by man which had no religious cause or element at all?

WW 1
WW 2
Vietnam.

In fact, I'll leave it to the experts:

According to the 'Encyclopedia of Wars':

"Of the 1,763 major conflicts in recorded history, only 123 of them can be classified as having been fought over religious differences. That’s less than 7 percent.

The encyclopedia also explains that the number of people killed in these conflicts amounts to only two percent. This means that even when wars have been fought over religious disputes, they tend to be less bloody than when they are fought for other reasons."

More on this from Rabbi Alan Lurie:

"History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever."

More:

What about all the millions of annual cases worldwide of murders, street crimes, domestic abuse, beatings, robberies, rapes, child abuse etc. etc. --
-- none of which are caused by religion, and all of which are carried out by humans who are not religious?

What about all this?

[smudgie]

Pretty simple really.
If people don't want religion then the places of worship will shut down due to not getting used, so people vote with their feet and bums on seats.

The school my kids went to taught them that their were different religions but did not preach any of them.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

How can you be sure. Take the life after death issue. You can't say a definate no unless youv'e been there etc., Best surely to say you don't know or don't believe so.

More sense from Jenny.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Pretty simple really.
If people don't want religion then the places of worship will shut down due to not getting used, so people vote with their feet and bums on seats.

The school my kids went to taught them that their were different religions but did not preach any of them.

Superb point Smudgie.

[AnnieK]

There will always be religion....it needs to be taught in schools in the hope that kids listen and learn the more tolerant to those of different faiths surely. If it is taken out of schools kids will only learn their parents faiths and beliefs and believe that anything else is wrong?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

let me sum it up for you morsh

"be nice to people"


there endeth the fecking lesson




(and if you are not then we kill you)

Again completely missing the point of religious education.

It's like saying Hitler's reign was a bad point in history so don't inform future generations about it. Education is crucial.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Let's pose the question another way; What about all the thousands of conflicts and wars which have been fought by man which had no religious cause or element at all?

WW 1
WW 2
Vietnam.

In fact, I'll leave it to the experts:

According to the 'Encyclopedia of Wars':

"Of the 1,763 major conflicts in recorded history, only 123 of them can be classified as having been fought over religious differences. That’s less than 7 percent.

The encyclopedia also explains that the number of people killed in these conflicts amounts to only two percent. This means that even when wars have been fought over religious disputes, they tend to be less bloody than when they are fought for other reasons."

More on this from Rabbi Alan Lurie:

"History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever."

More:

What about all the millions of annual cases worldwide of murders, street crimes, domestic abuse, beatings, robberies, rapes, child abuse etc. etc. --
-- none of which are caused by religion, and all of which are carried out by humans who are not religious?

What about all this?

[Josy]

If there ever comes a time when there is no religion there will be something else to take it's place and attempt to control the masses.

That said I'm of the opinion that if people want to have a faith then that's fair enough, if people don't then that's fair enough too it's when people start wanting a say about the other persons choices that's when the trouble starts.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Josy

If there ever comes a time when there is no religion there will be something else to take it's place and attempt to control the masses.

That said I'm of the opinion that if people want to have a faith then that's fair enough, if people don't then that's fair enough too it's when people start wanting a say about the other persons choices that's when the trouble starts.

A well written post Josy, and the section which I have emboldened is exactly what is being proposed by some on here.

Livia absolutely nails it when she advocates teaching children about all religions without ramming any particular one down their throats. It is only warped adults who warp children's minds and in that perverse practice, ignorance is a far more more lethal weapon than any education.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Josy

If there ever comes a time when there is no religion there will be something else to take it's place and attempt to control the masses.

That said I'm of the opinion that if people want to have a faith then that's fair enough, if people don't then that's fair enough too it's when people start wanting a say about the other persons choices that's when the trouble starts.

I agree Josy.
Down to personal choice, we should all have the choice to believe or not.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Josy

If there ever comes a time when there is no religion there will be something else to take it's place and attempt to control the masses.

That said I'm of the opinion that if people want to have a faith then that's fair enough, if people don't then that's fair enough too it's when people start wanting a say about the other persons choices that's when the trouble starts.

or teaching kids that it is real and factual

yes. I agree

[Toy Soldier]

People should be free to believe in literally anything they want to believe in, but yes - as I said on another thread today - keep it out of government. Not everyone believes the same and not everyone believes at all, and frankly, for those of us who don't follow any organised religion, having our world leaders bleat on about what are (to us) fictional characters and fairytales becomes very quickly ridiculous. Even people who are religious must appreciate that, surely? Imagine DC stood up tomorrow and in all seriousness announced that we must follow the charge of Ares and defeat our enemies in the name of the king of the gods - Zeus. What would you be thinking?

[InOne]

Kids need to be taught about Religion so they just don't swallow what their parents and family tell them. If none of it was taught in school and they went home and only got their families view they'd grow up very narrow minded indeed.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by InOne

Kids need to be taught about Religion so they just don't swallow what their parents and family tell them. If none of it was taught in school and they went home and only got their families view they'd grow up very narrow minded indeed.

Indeed it needs to be taught that it was a product of an age when many of the answers we have today were not around, that it is fictitious and that we do not need it.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by InOne

Kids need to be taught about Religion so they just don't swallow what their parents and family tell them. If none of it was taught in school and they went home and only got their families view they'd grow up very narrow minded indeed.

Well said and very true.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Indeed it needs to be taught that it was a product of an age when many of the answers we have today were not around, that it is fictitious and that we do not need it.

Yep. Get 'em questioning young.