[user104658]

Originally Posted by lostalex

The difference is that men have not been systematically abused, raped, discriminated against, and murdered at grossly disproportional rates by women.

Please try to put things in perspective.

When women "perv" on men, it doesn't make men feel demeaned. In fact every str8 man i know would love to have women perving over them.

So women should get preferential treatment over men to right a historical wrong? Has Eugenie Bouchard been abused, raped, discriminated against and murdered by men? I don't think she has, and I can't understand why people feel the need to take on the burdens (or the guilt!) of people long dead and buried. For example, I refuse to feel guilty about historical sexism and racism just because I am a white male. Am I sexist? Am I racist? No, and no. Do I have anything to do with, or give a **** about, what other white men happen to have done in the past? Does it have anything at all to do with me? NO and NO. I am an individual, I am not part of some collective conscious of "males", and the actions of any other individual who happens to be a male are not my responsibility.

Equality is equality. The past is irrelevant and each situation should be taken exactly as it is found, right here and right now. Otherwise what is being sought is NOT equality - it is retribution / reparation.

Men leer at female sports stars, women leer at male sports stars. That is equal. Is it RIGHT? Maybe not, that's a completely separate issue that has nothing at all to do with gender equality. If it is not right, then it should stop, or at least, presenters and interviewers shouldn't be engaging in it. Whether the sports star happens to have boobies and bergina or a peeners and testercoes.

Not every moral question is a "feminist issue" ffs.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So women should get preferential treatment over men to right a historical wrong? Has Eugenie Bouchard been abused, raped, discriminated against and murdered by men? I don't think she has, and I can't understand why people feel the need to take on the burdens (or the guilt!) of people long dead and buried. For example, I refuse to feel guilty about historical sexism and racism just because I am a white male. Am I sexist? Am I racist? No, and no. Do I have anything to do with, or give a **** about, what other white men happen to have done in the past? Does it have anything at all to do with me? NO and NO. I am an individual, I am not part of some collective conscious of "males", and the actions of any other individual who happens to be a male are not my responsibility.

Equality is equality. The past is irrelevant and each situation should be taken exactly as it is found, right here and right now. Otherwise what is being sought is NOT equality - it is retribution / reparation.

Men leer at female sports stars, women leer at male sports stars. That is equal. Is it RIGHT? Maybe not, that's a completely separate issue that has nothing at all to do with gender equality. If it is not right, then it should stop, or at least, presenters and interviewers shouldn't be engaging in it. Whether the sports star happens to have boobies and bergina or a peeners and testercoes.

Not every moral question is a "feminist issue" ffs.

but how many men feel objectified or devalued when women leer at them, vs. how many women feel objectified and devalued and demeaned when men leer at them.

There is a difference. You are speaking as if we live in a world where men and women are equal.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but how many men feel objectified or devalued when women leer at them, vs. how many women feel objectified and devalued and demeaned when men leer at them.

There is a difference. You are speaking as if we live in a world where men and women are equal.

Maybe more women than men feel uncomfortable but it would be a gross simplification to say that all men love it and all women hate it. Some men feel very uncomfortable with it, some women enjoy it.

Again, in my opinion, to ever achieve any meaningful equality we have to start judging situations based on individuals and stop lumping people into broad "men this" and "Women that" categories. Generalisation completely misses the point.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Maybe more women than men feel uncomfortable but it would be a gross simplification to say that all men love it and all women hate it. Some men feel very uncomfortable with it, some women enjoy it.

Again, in my opinion, to ever achieve any meaningful equality we have to start judging situations based on individuals and stop lumping people into broad "men this" and "Women that" categories. Generalisation completely misses the point.

I agree with this.

but in this specific case, we are judging an individual and his actions. and it was sexist.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

verysexist

Old style Yes

[arista]

Come on my love "GIVE ME" a Twirl

[user104658]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I agree with this.

but in this specific case, we are judging an individual and his actions. and it was sexist.

It's impossible to know if it was sexist or not, because he might also have been inappropriate if it had been an interview with a male. You might assume not but there's genuinely no way to know.

[Kizzy]

If it was a one off then no but the guy has tried making it a 'thing'... just commentate the match and concentrate on the sport.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Disgusting sexism

[Crimson Dynamo]

Anthea