[Creggle]

Originally Posted by Tom!

Both inflict pain..
Who do you think you are calling me kid?

There is no comparison there, being punched is nothing.
Also, you are a kid? It was not an insult, I'm sure I have referred to you as 'kid' before and you took no offense.

Though I take offense at the comparison you made, people eh...

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what if it was his kid that insulted his mother?

I'd shoot it

[Liam-]

Lock it in the cupboard for a couple of days, sorted.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Creggle

Sticky subject really, there is no good answer to it, but for the benefit of the child then maybe. It is speculation as I don't have a kid, if I did then maybe my opinion would be different but I can't for the life of me see how a light slap on the leg would mess a kid's life up?

Well i never said a slap on the leg would mess up a kids life. I just don't think resorting to physically hurting your child is ever a good way to discipline them

[Creggle]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well i never said a slap on the leg would mess up a kids life. I just don't think resorting to physically hurting your child is ever a good way to discipline them

Honestly who knows, some people are just born arseholes and would not respond to any other form of punishment, but I think it's a subject that only actual parents can have a real say in.

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

My Mum has raised 4 kids, 3 from one relationship and me with my Dad, the only time she has ever laid a finger on one of us was me, when i was like, 11, i said something horrible about my Dad because he was punishing me, so she slapped my leg, I was the only one of her kids that she had ever done that to and she cried for longer than i did, she was mortified and never did it again.
Me and my siblings all grew up to be, decent enough people, never had any trouble and my parents have always said, they could take us anywhere and not have to worry about any of us misbehaving.

So personally i see no correlation between kids being smacked and their behaviour

That being said, i think parents should be able to punish their kids how they see fit, i don't mean beating them, but if a clip round the ear or the back of legs will be more effective for their child than taking away their consoles, then so be it, as long as it's not drastic or over the top.

Exactly!! I think parents who don't smack their kids just have decent kids it's not like there is a certain age where a person graduates into a fully fledged prick!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Braden

I don't think it's ever okay to smack your child.

if theyre about to electrocute themselves by jumping in a bath with an electrical aplliance nearby....if theyre about to put their hands in the fire if theyre about to stab their sister with a knife....if theyre about to walk through glass etc etcetc etc

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by the truth

if theyre about to electrocute themselves by jumping in a bath with an electrical aplliance nearby....if theyre about to put their hands in the fire if theyre about to stab their sister with a knife....if theyre about to walk through glass etc etcetc etc

yes what about all of these instances where a warning is necessary but to then hit them..?

An adult can make a warning sufficiently serious as to make it memorable.

[Nedusa]

That's half the bloody reason this current generation were never smacked or disciplined when they were ankle biters.

Of course parents should be able to smack their children , they love their children above all else so if they smack them they probably deserved it.

It is the fault of this ridiculous PC culture where little children have rights and they must be respected.

Bollocks....... They are little brats who will learn to play on their parents love and try and get away with more and more and more, they need sometimes a short sharp shock to let them know they have to respect their parents wishes.

Not smacking them has resulted in my view immensely to this current generation of spoilt, cheeky, disrespectful kids who think they are entitled to get away with anything ....


Ps. Bring back the birch.....






.

[Samuel.]

I'm completely against it. It's not okay to smack anybody, except your own mentally and physically weak children? I've never understood that train of thought.

There are always better options than resulting to lazy and abusive smacking. It's archaic.

Originally Posted by Creggle

Can only agree tbh, look how children turn out when they don't get a slapped arse, it's never good.

Originally Posted by Creggle

But seriously you can pretty accurately tell which children are disciplined and which aren't in public, a misbehaving little brat has a PC parent.

What nonsense. You absolutely can't tell between children that have been hit and those that haven't. It's not the norm. In fact the majority of children I see playing up have aggresive, loud mouthed parents who look beyond caring about acting civil towards them.

[smudgie]

As a battered child, I always swore I would never hit my kids.
Well, that lasted until the first one reached his terrible twos.
A light tap on the hand each time he tried to put a knife into the video player soon worked.
He did not understand the word no
I really don't understand why you would hit your child hard enough to hurt it though.

[Kizzy]

Church advocated violence? :/ I can't hand on heart say I've never hit I can count on my fingers the times I've hit mine, but I would never recommend it.

[Jamesy]

Originally Posted by Creggle

But seriously you can pretty accurately tell which children are disciplined and which aren't in public, a misbehaving little brat has a PC parent.

I've found the opposite. On the most part I've found kids that are slapped aren't at all that disciplined. In *most* cases a child that is constantly hit as a discipline grows up thinking it is right to hit someone if they do something wrong, or they grow up mentally scarred or shy.

There are different ways to parenting and just because you don't hit your child does not mean you're being 'PC'. I know loads of parents who have never layed a finger on their kids, and those kids have turned out the be the most kind, loving and friendly people I've ever seen.

-

These days you can easily bring up a child without resorting to hitting them. As long as they are taught manners, politeness, kindness, respect and gratefulness from a young age they shouldn't misbehave to the point that you need to inflict anything physical upon them. =

I find a light tap OK (although even I wouldn't do that). Anything more violent than that is just uncalled and unneeded for to be honest.

I don't have kids so maybe I'm silly to share my own opinions on this, but personally I would never hit a child and if I did I would not go to the extremes that seem common with a small minority of parents. There are very easy ways to discipline a child when they misbehave without hitting them.

[Benjamin]

I don't get the fuss with a smack across the bum?

I got a slipper across the backside when I was a kid and I turned out fine, as did most other people.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Jamesy

In *most* cases a child that is constantly hit as a discipline grows up thinking it is right to hit someone if they do something wrong, or they grow up mentally scarred or shy.

You have evidence to back that up?

[Crimson Dynamo]

the problem is that most smacks are delivered because the parent has lost control

this myth that its a measured method of teaching is just that, a myth

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Jamesy

I've found the opposite. On the most part I've found kids that are slapped aren't at all that disciplined. In *most* cases a child that is constantly hit as a discipline grows up thinking it is right to hit someone if they do something wrong, or they grow up mentally scarred or shy.

There are different ways to parenting and just because you don't hit your child does not mean you're being 'PC'. I know loads of parents who have never layed a finger on their kids, and those kids have turned out the be the most kind, loving and friendly people I've ever seen.

-

These days you can easily bring up a child without resorting to hitting them. As long as they are taught manners, politeness, kindness, respect and gratefulness from a young age they shouldn't misbehave to the point that you need to inflict anything physical upon them. =

I find a light tap OK (although even I wouldn't do that). Anything more violent than that is just uncalled and unneeded for to be honest.

I don't have kids so maybe I'm silly to share my own opinions on this, but personally I would never hit a child and if I did I would not go to the extremes that seem common with a small minority of parents. There are very easy ways to discipline a child when they misbehave without hitting them.

You don't have to have children to have an opinion. Having children doesn't give you an automatic right to talk about things like this, just as bring a parent doesn't make you all knowing. My mum told me when I had my son that there's no book on bringing up kids, it just trial and error...boy was she right. It's hard work but I don't hit....it just condones hitting and violent behaviour but I was slapped, not often and I don't bear ill will to my parents

[user104658]

Any parent who has to resort to physical discipline is weak, unintelligent and unimaginative. Most of them are also aiming to raise children who are "obedient" instead of free-thinking, but moral, individuals. The aim is to raise a child who does the right thing because they know it is right, and because they want to do the right thing. Not a child who does the "right thing" because they are scared of getting a smack.

I can tell you exactly what that leads to. It leads to a child who gets sneaky, because they will carry on doing as they please when they are out of sight and sure that they can get away with it. And, because children are like little sponges with their parents behaviour, it leads to a child who thinks they can impose their will on other children by throwing their weight around and threatening to hit.

Every single genuine "brat" I've ever encountered does not come from a family with just, fair, non-violent parenting. They come from chav families with parents who have no idea how to communicate with them. And most of them do "get smacked", right there and then in the middle of the supermarket, because their parents are too thick and embarrassed to know what else to do. It is completely ineffective.

[Kizzy]

Let's not make it a class issue, there are parents from all backgrounds that smack.

[Ninastar]

I've worked with children of all different ages for over 6/7 years now. Honestly, I don't agree with really painful, over the top smacking, but I think the odd smack on the hand/bum/leg, wherever isn't that big of a deal. I think the real issue in parenting is that parents don't realise that they can't just comment on all the bad things children do. You need to make sure you give as many positives and compliments to them as possible, as well as telling them off for the bad behaviour. If you just smack your child every time they are bad and never let them know you're proud of them for something else, then they will just grow up to be afraid of doing anything. If you give them the odd smack or whatever, but always tell them how you're happy with nice things they do, they will end up being a lot nicer and more confident.

I dont agree with abuse. Who does? But I think theres a MASSIVE difference between the odd smack and making a child cry in pain from smacking them too hard.

I've worked in all kinds of schools. Upper class, lower class, lovely schools, truly, truly horrific schools. What I can definitely say though, is that childrens behaviour now, is WAY worse than what I ever saw at school. Children (for the most part) seriously have no respect. I honestly think the main reason for that is because smacking children became illegal/a taboo/a 'SHAME ON YOU!!!!11' etc etc and parents are now so scared of telling their kids off and being seen as abusive, that they just don't bother at all now. Which, in my personal opinion is so much worse than not disciplining your child at all.

I don't believe in bad children. I believe in bad parents who have no idea what they are doing.

[Northern Monkey]

Kids don't need to be hit if they've got a scary enough dad with a deep loud voice.I was smacked very little but i knew not to feck about when dad got home.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the problem is that most smacks are delivered because the parent has lost control

this myth that its a measured method of teaching is just that, a myth

Exactly, I think if parents were able to take the time to "plan" a punishment they could surely think of something better than getting physical

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Any parent who has to resort to physical discipline is weak, unintelligent and unimaginative. Most of them are also aiming to raise children who are "obedient" instead of free-thinking, but moral, individuals. The aim is to raise a child who does the right thing because they know it is right, and because they want to do the right thing. Not a child who does the "right thing" because they are scared of getting a smack.

I can tell you exactly what that leads to. It leads to a child who gets sneaky, because they will carry on doing as they please when they are out of sight and sure that they can get away with it. And, because children are like little sponges with their parents behaviour, it leads to a child who thinks they can impose their will on other children by throwing their weight around and threatening to hit.

Every single genuine "brat" I've ever encountered does not come from a family with just, fair, non-violent parenting. They come from chav families with parents who have no idea how to communicate with them. And most of them do "get smacked", right there and then in the middle of the supermarket, because their parents are too thick and embarrassed to know what else to do. It is completely ineffective.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Any parent who has to resort to physical discipline is weak, unintelligent and unimaginative. Most of them are also aiming to raise children who are "obedient" instead of free-thinking, but moral, individuals. The aim is to raise a child who does the right thing because they know it is right, and because they want to do the right thing. Not a child who does the "right thing" because they are scared of getting a smack.

I can tell you exactly what that leads to. It leads to a child who gets sneaky, because they will carry on doing as they please when they are out of sight and sure that they can get away with it. And, because children are like little sponges with their parents behaviour, it leads to a child who thinks they can impose their will on other children by throwing their weight around and threatening to hit.

Every single genuine "brat" I've ever encountered does not come from a family with just, fair, non-violent parenting. They come from chav families with parents who have no idea how to communicate with them. And most of them do "get smacked", right there and then in the middle of the supermarket, because their parents are too thick and embarrassed to know what else to do. It is completely ineffective.

Lovely sentiments expressed in this post and I want to believe this is true and no one should ever smack their children.

But the reality is children NEED discipline and a short sharp shock can administer that discipline effectively, trying to reason with very young children is pointless, trying to make a deal with them or bribe them or threaten them is all pointless.

They must understand you are the boss and they should respect you. So a light smack in my view is acceptable and permissable and will not lead to deranged psychotic juveniles.

Children have been smacked by their parents for generations, how else do they learn respect and the diff between right and wrong. How else are they going to learn that when Mummy or Daddy says stop he/she means stop.

All this recent namby pamby don't hit your child because it's assault is complete and utter bollocks and has in part resulted in the current generation of misguided, spolit, diserespectful lazy, good for nothing, idle layabouts who think they have a right to everything without having to put in any effort.

They think they have a right to give a torrent of foul mouth abuse to an adult who chastises them for some minor transgression.

There does not seem to be the same respect for adults by children/youths these days and I wonder if the present situation has come about due to the lack of parental punishment in their childrens early years.






.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Lovely sentiments expressed in this post and I want to believe this is true and no one should ever smack their children.

But the reality is children NEED discipline and a short sharp shock can administer that discipline effectively, trying to reason with very young children is pointless, trying to make a deal with them or bribe them or threaten them is all pointless.

They must understand you are the boss and they should respect you. So a light smack in my view is acceptable and permissable and will not lead to deranged psychotic juveniles.

Children have been smacked by their parents for generations, how else do they learn respect and the diff between right and wrong. How else are they going to learn that when Mummy or Daddy says stop he/she means stop.

All this recent namby pamby don't hit your child because it's assault is complete and utter bollocks and has in part resulted in the current generation of misguided, spolit, diserespectful lazy, good for nothing, idle layabouts who think they have a right to everything without having to put in any effort.

They think they have a right to give a torrent of foul mouth abuse to an adult who chastises them for some minor transgression.

There does not seem to be the same respect for adults by children/youths these days and I wonder if the present situation has come about due to the lack of parental punishment in their childrens early years.






.

The thing is, though, I have children... And they have never been smacked. So I don't "think" that it's possible for them to learn right from wrong without smacking, I KNOW that it is possible.

Something else to consider: my youngest daughter (aged 2 and a half) is on the autistic spectrum. She has many difficulties with language and communication and there are huge additional hurdles over a "normal" child. Three important points:

- she has very few words and doesn't understand many more.

- she is likely to get herself into risky situations (for herself and others) MORE than the average toddler.

- hitting an autistic child is *completely* inappropriate, even if you do think that in general a smack is "OK". She would for one, go completely nuclear and become very distressed and confused and, secondly, would be highly likely to regress / temporarily lose the words she does have / lose her ability to make eye contact and engage. This is a disaster for an autistic child.


Now... Here's the strange thing. She knows that "stop means stop". Two of the phrases she does understand and respond to, are "not to do that" and "not to touch that". You say "how else are they going to learn" and yet... Tadaaa... A 2.5 year old with learning difficulties HAS learned. Is it just us? Are we some sort of magical super parents with abilities that other parents don't have? I'd love to make that claim but somehow I don't think it's true.

I'd also point out that I have a 5 year old who is "normal", has also never been hit, and achieving all of the above was much easier. So it's not a case of it being different for "abnormal" kids.

I stand by my original claim that rude / disrespectful kids come from rude / disrespectful, chavvy, broken homes with broken parents. Most of whom think smacking is fine. Children learn respect by being immersed in a respectful environment. Physically striking someone for any reason, is not respectful.

Another anecdote: my daughter only has one friend at school who has ever hit her. She hits her, and her other classmates, constantly to try to get her own way. She is also very bossy and rude to other parents, including myself. I know her mother. I know that her mother smacks. Just sayin'. It's not teaching anything good.

[Niamh.]

Yep, totally agree with you in all you've posted there TS. I have 2 kids as well aged 10 and 14 now, neither were smacked when they were younger or now, both of them are very respectful, infact every parent teacher meeting I've ever been to both their teachers have always commented on how polite and well behaved my kids are. I'm a firm believer in kids learning by example so hitting them imo is teaching them that hitting people is ok....that's just logical imo

[Livia]

I think smacking stupid people should be allowed. Compulsory, in fact.