[Marsh.]

Vicky explaining my points so much more eloquently.

[Kizzy]

The issue isn't whether she would make a good mother it's if her body will be strong enough to cope with the trauma of a multiple birth.
Carrying 1 baby at 65 would be a strain, but 4?
For me it's more irresponsible than the teen having one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

she obviously has some metal issues

[AnnieK]

There is also the stigma facing the children having such an older mother. Is she going to be able to offer the same physical development as a younger parent - is her health and body going to allow her to keep up with the demands of raising four children alone. The chances of going full term is low with a multiple birth so the chances are the children will all require extra help for possibly years to come. I can see a lot of cons and not many pros to having a child so late in life.

Family genetics mean jack **** too - all my grandparents have been in their 90s when they passed away (my surviving grandmother is 88) but my mum died at 65 after a very short illness and no real previous medical problems. ( yes, I am angry about that fact)

I am all for the medical advances in treating infertility (having been treated for it myself) but as she has already borne 13 children I don't think that is an issue for this lady.

[Ammi]

....hmmm, this is a funny one, I'm not sure what my thoughts are about it...to an extent I agree with Livia, there is so much we take from early childhood that helps form our adult characters and if she is a great mother and inspiration and wisdom to her children, I think someone like that would benefit a young life hugely...I'm sure for any of us who have had great people in our lives who we have lost, whatever much time we've had with them, we would rather have had that than never had them at all...I'm also kind of assuming that with the size of her family, she has made provisions for the children to be well cared for and loved if anything did happen with her health and she wasn't able to look after them...also, I guess at 65yrs, she could still possibly be with them until they are adults....

...I think what does bother me though is the ethics of it all, it kind of feels as though she's some kind of 'experiment' type thing....I wouldn't have thought that there are many 65yr olds who would want to have a baby at that time in life and she already has 13 children so has fully experienced motherhood, it's not something she feels she wants to experience for the first time etc..so even if she wanted this, it was ultimately a medical decision that allowed it and was it just to see if it was possible with disregard for her health and welfare/age because it would be obvious that it would gain attention....I mean even if she were much younger, with 13 children already...should the medical profession support and agree to her want to have a 14th and offer her fertility treatment to achieve it....hmmmm....

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by MB.

#anyholesagoal

Bye nn

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....hmmm, this is a funny one, I'm not sure what my thoughts are about it...to an extent I agree with Livia, there is so much we take from early childhood that helps form our adult characters and if she is a great mother and inspiration and wisdom to her children, I think someone like that would benefit a young life hugely...I'm sure for any of us who have had great people in our lives who we have lost, whatever much time we've had with them, we would rather have had that than never had them at all...I'm also kind of assuming that with the size of her family, she has made provisions for the children to be well cared for and loved if anything did happen with her health and she wasn't able to look after them...also, I guess at 65yrs, she could still possibly be with them until they are adults....

...I think what does bother me though is the ethics of it all, it kind of feels as though she's some kind of 'experiment' type thing....I wouldn't have thought that there are many 65yr olds who would want to have a baby at that time in life and she already has 13 children so has fully experienced motherhood, it's not something she feels she wants to experience for the first time etc..so even if she wanted this, it was ultimately a medical decision that allowed it and was it just to see if it was possible with disregard for her health and welfare/age because it would be obvious that it would gain attention....I mean even if she were much younger, with 13 children already...should the medical profession support and agree to her want to have a 14th and offer her fertility treatment to achieve it....hmmmm....

It's all well and good making decisions about having child after child but expecting your children to raise them for you? I don't think that's acceptable.
she has a 10yr old as well as these 4 babies (if they all survive) and possibly others under 18, passing the responsibility for all those children onto others would be unfair.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....hmmm, this is a funny one, I'm not sure what my thoughts are about it...to an extent I agree with Livia, there is so much we take from early childhood that helps form our adult characters and if she is a great mother and inspiration and wisdom to her children, I think someone like that would benefit a young life hugely...I'm sure for any of us who have had great people in our lives who we have lost, whatever much time we've had with them, we would rather have had that than never had them at all...I'm also kind of assuming that with the size of her family, she has made provisions for the children to be well cared for and loved if anything did happen with her health and she wasn't able to look after them...also, I guess at 65yrs, she could still possibly be with them until they are adults....

...I think what does bother me though is the ethics of it all, it kind of feels as though she's some kind of 'experiment' type thing....I wouldn't have thought that there are many 65yr olds who would want to have a baby at that time in life and she already has 13 children so has fully experienced motherhood, it's not something she feels she wants to experience for the first time etc..so even if she wanted this, it was ultimately a medical decision that allowed it and was it just to see if it was possible with disregard for her health and welfare/age because it would be obvious that it would gain attention....I mean even if she were much younger, with 13 children already...should the medical profession support and agree to her want to have a 14th and offer her fertility treatment to achieve it....hmmmm....

I do understand people's objections but I feel sure an educated woman, a teacher, wouldn't have gone into this blindly. People are also misunderstanding the point about her "making arrangements, assuming this means children bringing up children. I'm sure her older children are well into adulthood and able to have a conversation about the future without people assuming they're idiots unable to make a decision on their own. And "family" means a wider group than just children. People are living longer, everyone's assuming this woman's going to be dead in ten years and I doubt, if there were any indications that she would be, that she would have gone ahead with this. Which brings us back to, no one knows how long they've got.

[lostalex]

It's unfortunate that people are so judgmental. If the plumbing still works i don't see the problem. If it's okay for a 30y/o who is to say it's not okay for a 60y/o. You have to have one rule for everyone. it's not fair to have different rules for different people based on age, or race, or gender or sexuality.

equality must be universal. one set of rules for all, and all rules for every one. that's what equality is.

[Kizzy]

No doctor in their right mind would advocate a 65yr old carrying quads, so imo she is far from being in her right mind.
You would have to be an idiot to agree to raise your mothers children as she continues to have children way past natural menopausal age.
Family is all well and good but I would prefer my children to decide when and how many mouths they have to feed.
There is no guarantees as to how her aging body will cope with the stress of quads or how quickly she will be able to recover from the surgery associated with multiple births.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

she obviously has some metal issues

Yes but apart from 'Metal' issues, if she is going to give birth to quads, she's also going to have problems with the seat and those four huge rubber tyres. I think after the first one each other quad will get easier to pass. This should stretch her wrinkly skin a bit.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's unfortunate that people are so judgmental. If the plumbing still works i don't see the problem. If it's okay for a 30y/o who is to say it's not okay for a 60y/o. You have to have one rule for everyone. it's not fair to have different rules for different people based on age, or race, or gender or sexuality.

equality must be universal. one set of rules for all, and all rules for every one. that's what equality is.

That's all well and good but there is a reason why women stop being able naturally conceive beyond a certain age.

Comparing a 30yo and a 65yo when it comes to carrying children is so stupid it make your post laughable.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's all well and good but there is a reason why women stop being able naturally conceive beyond a certain age.

Comparing a 30yo and a 65yo when it comes to carrying children is so stupid it make your post laughable.

...hmmm but then could the same not be said of say a gay couple becoming parents..or someone who couldn't naturally conceive having a child by insemination etc...I mean I remember not all that long ago, 40yrs old + was considered very late to have a child and taking health risks and now this lady in her 60's is able to become pregnant..maybe there are more health risks with that but I'm assuming that the treatment wouldn't have been given in the first place, were it not felt fairly safe for her/viable etc....

...anyway, it's not something I really have specific strong views about, I wish her well and hope that she has a healthy pregnancy and 4 beautiful healthy children ....

[jennyjuniper]

I became a mother at 42 and I was knackered most of the time. I'm reasonably fit, but I just didn't have the boundless energy that a toddler requires you to have.
On the flip side, I did have more patience than when I had my daughter 13 years before.
However 65 is far too old. Especially when it's by fertilisation. IVF should only be used on women who can't concieve any other way and certainly not if they already have a football team!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmm but then could the same not be said of say a gay couple becoming parents..or someone who couldn't naturally conceive having a child by insemination etc...I mean I remember not all that long ago, 40yrs old + was considered very late to have a child and taking health risks and now this lady in her 60's is able to become pregnant..maybe there are more health risks with that but I'm assuming that the treatment wouldn't have been given in the first place, were it not felt fairly safe for her/viable etc....

...anyway, it's not something I really have specific strong views about, I wish her well and hope that she has a healthy pregnancy and 4 beautiful healthy children ....

That is a very good point Ammi, good luck to her and her brood

[the truth]

who paid for this?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmm but then could the same not be said of say a gay couple becoming parents..or someone who couldn't naturally conceive having a child by insemination etc...I mean I remember not all that long ago, 40yrs old + was considered very late to have a child and taking health risks and now this lady in her 60's is able to become pregnant..maybe there are more health risks with that but I'm assuming that the treatment wouldn't have been given in the first place, were it not felt fairly safe for her/viable etc....

Yes, of course. But beyond being unable to have children at any age, the body cannot cope with pregnancy beyond a certain age as the body becomes frailer and cannot handle the same things a much younger body can.

Helping the infertile and homosexuals to have children in different ways is all well and good but this is something different I feel personally.

It's like sending a man in his 70s with his rusty back, knees and arthritis to go and do heavy lifting for a living because it's discriminatory and ageist to turn him down despite the obvious differences between him and a fit as a fiddle 25 year old.

I think our society takes the positive "You can do anything at any time, it's never too late" attitude to extremes at times. Things happen for a reason.

If a woman can't have children because her body is not suitable for carrying a baby, they go down the adoption, surrogacy or any of the other routes to achieve their dream of having children. Their body won't allow a natural conception for a reason.
Your body not allowing you to naturally conceive a child at a certain age is doing so for a reason, both for the mother and the potential offspring.