[the truth]

under a left or right wong government?

I was brought up labour through and through

at the time labour were tax the rich help the poor protect the jobs and industries

of course maggie destroyed the industries
but since then id argue society is more compassionate under tory rule

with less red tape less state interference less state middle management the money gets to the front line easier

small businesses are allowed a little more help and are less hassled by endless red tape, this pays more to the treasury as the economy recovers

people are allowed ambition not enslaved to welfare dependency

people do not rely simply on social services and the state to care for their relatives for them, they do it themselves when possible,,,loving and caring for a family member is infinitely more effective than letting the state do it for you

and yes still getting support

i have found society to have gotten far meaner coler and less warm and compassionate under labours 13 year reign....they even perverted the meaning of the words and made it harder for everyone to help people. health and safety police red tape etc all made it harder to do common sense things to help people and catch criminals

frankly new labour frightened the hell out of....endless cover ups, kronyism, red tape loss of sovereignty

new labour fans like to pick out one bit of society in isolation ....but i like to look at the overall bigger picture

millions more jobs, more chance, more ambition, more productivity, more dreams more hope more money, more reward, less debts less poverty more funding from the improved well

heck even on new labours calling card , the nhs....the tories funded it more

final nail in new labours coffin.....they try to say they gave us the nhs, ok hats opff the neu bevan possibly the greatest briton ever. but 1) that was a different labour party who fought for the working people and built millions of social housing and 2) it was the liberals who actually created the welfare state, national insurance contributions, votes for working class people and women and taxed the rich....labour simply stole their identity years later

[arista]

[heck even on new labours calling card , the nhs....the tories funded it more]

Yes.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

under a left or right wong government?

I was brought up labour through and through

at the time labour were tax the rich help the poor protect the jobs and industries

of course maggie destroyed the industries
but since then id argue society is more compassionate under tory rule

with less red tape less state interference less state middle management the money gets to the front line easier

small businesses are allowed a little more help and are less hassled by endless red tape, this pays more to the treasury as the economy recovers

people are allowed ambition not enslaved to welfare dependency

people do not rely simply on social services and the state to care for their relatives for them, they do it themselves when possible,,,loving and caring for a family member is infinitely more effective than letting the state do it for you

and yes still getting support

i have found society to have gotten far meaner coler and less warm and compassionate under labours 13 year reign....they even perverted the meaning of the words and made it harder for everyone to help people. health and safety police red tape etc all made it harder to do common sense things to help people and catch criminals

frankly new labour frightened the hell out of....endless cover ups, kronyism, red tape loss of sovereignty

new labour fans like to pick out one bit of society in isolation ....but i like to look at the overall bigger picture

millions more jobs, more chance, more ambition, more productivity, more dreams more hope more money, more reward, less debts less poverty more funding from the improved well

heck even on new labours calling card , the nhs....the tories funded it more

final nail in new labours coffin.....they try to say they gave us the nhs, ok hats opff the neu bevan possibly the greatest briton ever. but 1) that was a different labour party who fought for the working people and built millions of social housing and 2) it was the liberals who actually created the welfare state, national insurance contributions, votes for working class people and women and taxed the rich....labour simply stole their identity years later

'The Truth' - you appear to be one of the most.... misunderstood and incendiary members on here, but I will state here and now, that your posts DO actually contain great TRUTHS.

[joeysteele]

Obviously I do not agree with all the posts above, if anyone really believes the treatment dished out to the most vulnerable, sick and disabled by the Conservative led govt; over the last 5 years has anything resembling compassion in it, then I feel sorry for them.

That was not the case with previous Conservative govts;who often were some of the fairest and most compassionate.
I would concede some Labour govts; too could have done much more to ensure compassion was at the heart of policy making not an afterthought.

I don't believe at all, either the left of politics or tight of politics have a monopoly as to compassion in policy making and legislation,nor should they have in any decent society.
However this govt; of the last 5 years has not an ounce of compassion and I really believe Labour had in the last election.

You can go on an on about the NHS and when the first thoughts of it were mentioned but it did take a Labour govt; to get elected to bring into existence.
Despite talk about it, no one made the move to bring it about until Labour won in 1945.

Different leaders of parties all have different ways of leading and the policies they make,that is why I judge parties on the leaders they have.
David Cameron has done not one thing to demonstrate to me, he has any wish to have compassionate policy making.
The more extreme he has got and the more heartless his govt; has been is what had me turn and walk away from them.

The Lib Dems are just total failures for their misleading of the voters and betrayal as to how they have voted on many issues in parliament.
They have a long road back but if they elect Tim Farron, they can start to turn things around in my opinion.
I however see no one of the current frontrunners of the Conservatives party, who would inspire me to think they would have any compassion still as to policy making after David Cameron is gone.

UKIP, have to stop blaming every single thing on immigration and stop trying to create the us and them divisions as to the British, or more correctly as they see it, the English, against immigrants.
It is an odd thing for me that ironically however,UKIP have far more compassion in their other social polices than the Conservatives under David Cameron ever will have.
They would go further to the left than even Labour or the SNP as to some policies.

So for me, obviously from all I have said on here this last 3 years,I believe Labour do have the more compassionate road and if they elect a leader this time who will stick to compassion being in all policies,alongside justice and fairness as an inclusive to all sections of society,'and' more importantly have a leader who can get that message across,then for me they will be the best way forward.
In my opinion.

The Greens need to take some policies and shelve them especially as to energy,otherwise their compassionate polices wil continue to be passed by too.
The SNP and Plaid Cymru lead the way at present on compassion, justice and fairness across the board.
All those are parties are in fact from the left and so at present,because of the rigid, discriminatory,vindictive and heartless polices of the Conservative party particularly, I would say a lot of the right of politics has a massive way to go to be seen in any way compassionate or even fair.

The one place there is no fairness and compassion from at present however is this govt:

For me the only thing on paper this govt; will get right in the next 5 years, is that it will remove from UKIP its main thrust as to policy,an EU decision by the people.
That at a stroke no matter the result will remove the roar from UKIP as to its existenc, although for a while it will still be able to prowl around.

Business is only one but very important part of society in the UK, not all of it, people too should be able to care for relatives if they want to, they should also be acknowledged by the state for doing so.
This govt; has forced people caring for a relative to take some other work or lose what they are claiming.
It is even possible the carers allowance could be hit by this govt; soon too.

The state has a duty to help care for those in need who are sick and disabled and vulnerable, if perhaps more businesses put their hands in the pockets and help support such moves, society could be far better.much more inclusive and more compassionate.

The us and them created divisions are what is needed to be broken down, that is no easy task with,employers nowwho can and do exploit working staff.
Also too whole sections of society having to face suspicion,demonisation and discrimination,just for being immigrants or on benefits.

No simple answers now sadly, one thing for sure for me however as to compassion, justice and fairness, none of any of that to come from this govt:

[bots]

Society is not compassionate these days. That's the fundamental problem I think. I've lived in various locations in the UK over the years, and it is my experience that the further south you head toward London, the less compassionate it gets.

I'm not sure why it is the way it is, whether its population density or just inherent differences between regions, but the divisions absolutely exist.

London drives politics, and so, no matter the party in government, they will reflect London in their policies. That's where the perceived lack of compassion comes from, and at least part explains to me, why there is a gulf appearing between Scotland and the north, and the South of England.

[Cherie]

The SNP are only compassionate towards the Scots though, why are they not arguing for concessions for all the UK not just themselves

[bots]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The SNP are only compassionate towards the Scots though, why are they not arguing for concessions for all the UK not just themselves

In fairness the have been in their own way, by championing anti austerity. But, the SNP are not a nice friendly, cuddly, woolly party. They only have one agenda item, Independence.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

In fairness the have been in their own way, by championing anti austerity. But, the SNP are not a nice friendly, cuddly, woolly party. They only have one agenda item, Independence.

lets hope cameron actually does chase the tax dodging corporations to balance the books thus making austerity less tight on the hard working masses.....chasing down tax dodgers and getting the workless welfare dependants healthy enough to work butchoosing not to...thats where the savings should be targeted. i dont know any disabled friends or relatives who have lost any disability benefits YET. i really hope cameron stays tough and true to his pledge to leave the sick disabled alone. I actually think he will , hes delivered on his nhs investment promises, im delighted with that. hes also suppoted trouble shooters who expose the mass of nhs cover ups and corruption and his goal of a 7 day nhs is a noble one too

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

The most telling moment on this video on the advocation of the UK model of Conservatism is at around 1.12 when as introducing IDS the speaker mentions the Beveridge report of 1942, it is clear that this is seen as the rot from which we have the 'welfare dependants'
Yet what was the alternative, want, ignorance, squalor, disease or idleness?

Has governments not taken these means to keep the electorate healthy, educated housed and working and systematically over the last 40 odd years desecrated that model?

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[joeysteele]

Jacques Brel, lyrical genius.

[Kizzy]

We better get compassionate otherwise it's going to be a very stark winter for many.


http://www.theguardian.com/business/...b06ffbbb3f54e5

[the truth]

whilst Im aware dave cameron is more disliked by some on here than the bnp....and everyone believes he will sell off the nhs....but he claims to be targetting a very ambitious 7 day nhs , by changing staff rotas , recruiting more and scanning more people quicker...millions o scanners lie ununsed most or all of the time...I know some hospitals use their kidney scanners for 6 hours a week? meanwhile people with kidney stones lie prostrate in agony in nhs wards for months, blocking beds , taking endless medication, taking up staff time and money etc etc if they got scanned at the start all that can be avoided...this means putting millions more into the front end ie. scanning and saving way more on the back end i.e. bed blocking wasted medication, wasted staff hours .....oh and it saves more lives too

we treat cars better than people....we take cars to a garage they get scanned immediately then we go about fixing them...we don't leave cars unscanned for months and pay people to look after them in the mean time...scan them quick fix them quick...end of




Asked by a reporter if he could deliver efficiency savings and seven-day working while asking staff to work more unsociable hours, the Prime Minister cited the success of Salford Royal Hospital in Greater Manchester.

Mr Cameron said: "I saw this in operation (in Salford) and they are working increasingly on a seven-day basis.

"The scanners are working at the weekend, the MRIs are working at the weekend ... everything is working at the weekend. And as a result, actually, they've been able to reduce their costs and provide a better service.

"So it is absolutely the right vision for the NHS.

"Will it be easy to achieve? Of course not. Will it require a lot of hard work to put it in place? Yes, it will.

"But it's definitely the right ambition and people shouldn't automatically assume that working something on a seven-day-a-week basis means it's more expensive.

"After all, huge amounts of taxpayers' money have been put into the CAT scanners and the MRI scanners and doesn't it make sense to ensure they are being used on a whole-week basis?"


The unions seem sceptical, they'll want him to honour weekend increased pay rates, but as he says savings could ultimately be made in the long run and lives saved, simply by finding out whats wrong with everyone far earlier....One reply to his plans creased me, we will agree to this if all politicians work a 7 day week and take a pay freeze for a decade etc But the point isn't party political , nor do we know if a 7 day week is ever achievable, but the ambition to get these machines working far more often may be achievable and may save masses of patients lives and saving billions on the back end

[Kizzy]

If he's willing to fund the extra staff and has budgeted for the NHS going 24/7 that's fine... Do I think for a minute he has? No siree bob.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If he's willing to fund the extra staff and has budgeted for the NHS going 24/7 that's fine... Do I think for a minute he has? No siree bob.

yes. 8 billion plus change rotas , saving more middle management jobs and saving billions on the back end as outlined

ps no sirree bob is a pretty childish and fickle way to speak about matters of life and death for millions

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If he's willing to fund the extra staff and has budgeted for the NHS going 24/7 that's fine... Do I think for a minute he has? No siree bob.

He hasn't yet said where that 8 billion is coming from Kizzy,he hadn't it before the election campaign started so where is it coming from.
He has never said a single thing as to that.

There is also still no real detail as to these plans either,that is a vital ingredient to anything working well, that is has been planned and thought out with due care.
It would appear he has not even consulted Nursing staff or Doctors again as to these plans, as to how they would be expected to operate.
He made a mess of the NHS with the re-organisation that 'he promised' was never going to take place.

Once the real detail of this idea is known, then with the medical opinion on it better known, then it will be possibly be able to be seen as a possible success.

Everyone wants a better NHS, you don't however get an NHS working better by imposing things on it, rather than consulting and working with the Doctors and Nursing staff in the planning of same.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes. 8 billion plus change rotas , saving more middle management jobs and saving billions on the back end as outlined

ps no sirree bob is a pretty childish and fickle way to speak about matters of life and death for millions

That figure he plucked out of thin air a week before the election, where is this money coming from again I saw nothing outlined anywhere?

I don't care what you consider my language to be, kindly comment on what I say and not how I choose to express myself.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That figure he plucked out of thin air a week before the election, where is this money coming from again I saw nothing outlined anywhere?

I don't care what you consider my language to be, kindly comment on what I say and not how I choose to express myself.

another non contribution, shameful

[Kizzy]

Here's a contribution for you.

Really pleased to read of JK Rowlings success gaining an apology and damages ( donated to charity) for the Mails damaging slurs
Joanne Kathleen 1 right wing lying media 0

Author JK Rowling has been “fully vindicated and her reputation restored” following the Daily Mail’s apology for alleging she wrote a “sob story” containing false claims about her time as a single mother, the high court has heard.

A judge was told that the publisher of the Daily Mail has accepted the allegations were “completely false and indefensible”, published an apology and undertaken not to repeat them.

Associated Newspapers has also agreed to pay the creator of Harry Potter substantial damages, which she is donating to charity, and to contribute to her legal costs, said her lawyer.'

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...t-harry-potter

[the truth]

im talking about savings thousands of lives youre on about trivial nonsense like j k rowling lol a woman worth 500 million , do me a flavour...wow youre really fighting the good fight now

[JoshBB]

Definitely more compassionate under Labour. You talk about the NHS.. labour even created it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

im talking about savings thousands of lives youre on about trivial nonsense like j k rowling lol a woman worth 500 million , do me a flavour...wow youre really fighting the good fight now

If you don't like my posts and they're just not profound enough for you don't read them

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Definitely more compassionate under Labour. You talk about the NHS.. labour even created it.

LIBERALS created the welfare state and the national insurance contributions and taxed the rich ...they therefore laid all the platform for the nhs to be created decades later....labour were then a decent honest party and neu bevan was a giant amongst men....new labour are the spawn of the devil. fraudsters, crooks, bigots , kronies, cowards , warmongers, heck they even took away workers rights, destroyed civil liberties and freedom of speech...literally everything they did was a lie....they even ruined the nhs with endless cover ups waste, mrsa at 70 times the rate of the European nations like Sweden....1000s dying of neglect and abuse? billions wasted on middle management...endless cover ups? even the ombudsmen lacked the funding to deal with the complaints

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you don't like my posts and they're just not profound enough for you don't read them

ill do what I like

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by the truth

LIBERALS created the welfare state and the national insurance contributions and taxed the rich ...they therefore laid all the platform for the nhs to be created decades later....labour were then a decent honest party and neu bevan was a giant amongst men....new labour are the spawn of the devil. fraudsters, crooks, bigots , kronies, cowards , warmongers, heck they even took away workers rights, destroyed civil liberties and freedom of speech...literally everything they did was a lie....they even ruined the nhs with endless cover ups waste, mrsa at 70 times the rate of the European nations like Sweden....1000s dying of neglect and abuse? billions wasted on middle management...endless cover ups? even the ombudsmen lacked the funding to deal with the complaints

You liked Old Labour? From most of your posts I assumed you were far-right, but there we go.

Old Labour is preferable to the new one, but I think you're overreacting calling them "spawn of the devil"