[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not out of context though, the tent pole of your entire argument is "starving children in africa" logic.

That is,

Person A: "*rumble* ooohhh I'm hungry, it doesn't feel good to be hungry."

Person B: "Hungry? You're HUNGRY?? You, privileged westerner with money in your pocket and a cupboard full of food, are hungry? There are starving children in Africa whose stomachs are swolen and whose bones are brittle because of malnourishment. And you think you know what it's like to be hungry? You're not hungry, lmao, it's ridiculous."


In truth, person A is in fact still hungry, and it still doesn't feel good to be hungry. Is it something that causes them pain every day? Does it have a major impact on their life like it does the starving child? No of course not. But that's irrelevant to the word and to the fact that it doesn't feel good.


Like person A can experience hunger without lessening the plight of starving child B, heterosexual A can experience the mild hurt of directed heterophobic comments without lessening the plight of homosexual B.

THAT is where false equivalency comes into this; the assumption that because "heterophobia" and "homophobia" are similar terms, there is an implication that they are similar in severity and consequence, and therefore that the very existence of the word heterophobia is offensive and somehow weakens the word homophobia. ... In reality there is no such implication and the imagined equivalency is reactionary.

This.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by RichardG

I'm a little confused at the direction the thread has taken over the past few days when the original OP was so innocent. All that was literally asked is 'is it acceptable to poke fun at straight people', heterophobia just happened to be the word used to describe it.

It was far from innocent and it was the wrong word to use. Everyone knows that anyone can poke fun at someone else for whatever springs to mind, obviously it's frowned upon but straight people do not have something like homophobia looming over them. That is the point.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes however other members may want to have their say other than the handful who have over the weekend.

Ah, but I was not condoning closing the thread. I am opposed to any thread being closed even though I realise sadly, that sometimes the mods have but little choice.

I was merely agreeing with Ammi, that as a very 'Seasoned' contributor to SD, and therefore someone who KNOWS that nothing is ever resolved on here, and that different facets of the same arguments - pro and con - are constantly regurgitated, this 'Horse' is very much 'Dead' and no amount of 'Flogging' will achieve anything -- except argument for argument's sake.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not out of context though, the tent pole of your entire argument is "starving children in africa" logic.

That is,

Person A: "*rumble* ooohhh I'm hungry, it doesn't feel good to be hungry."

Person B: "Hungry? You're HUNGRY?? You, privileged westerner with money in your pocket and a cupboard full of food, are hungry? There are starving children in Africa whose stomachs are swolen and whose bones are brittle because of malnourishment. And you think you know what it's like to be hungry? You're not hungry, lmao, it's ridiculous."


In truth, person A is in fact still hungry, and it still doesn't feel good to be hungry. Is it something that causes them pain every day? Does it have a major impact on their life like it does the starving child? No of course not. But that's irrelevant to the word and to the fact that it doesn't feel good.


Like person A can experience hunger without lessening the plight of starving child B, heterosexual A can experience the mild hurt of directed heterophobic comments without lessening the plight of homosexual B.

THAT is where false equivalency comes into this; the assumption that because "heterophobia" and "homophobia" are similar terms, there is an implication that they are similar in severity and consequence, and therefore that the very existence of the word heterophobia is offensive and somehow weakens the word homophobia. ... In reality there is no such implication and the imagined equivalency is reactionary.

Since the start of the topic my argument has always had three points.

1. Heterophobia is a myth
2. HOWEVER Gay people, like anyone, can be prejudiced.
3. Insulting straight people isn't justified

Picking out one badly worded post of mine and making assumptions about it (although I clarified what I was saying when people asked about it afterwards, you conveniently ignored that though I see) smacks of desperation.

You are oversimplifying what I've said in that one to such a point that it no longer resembles what I actually said and meant.

EDIT: I see that my post clarifying my position was deleted by another mod in a sweep. I'll repost the part clarifying my position here.

Not justifying it, ***** will be ***** but using that as an example to say the heterophobia exists is dumb. When straight people are being persecuted for their sexuality then you can call it heterophobia, otherwise it's just prejudice.

[Northern Monkey]

Maybe the answer is....Heterophobia does exist because logically it has to.But it just does'nt happen very much at all?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Maybe the answer is....Heterophobia does exist because logically it has to.But it just does'nt happen very much at all?

It exists in theory but not in reality. Like reverse racism and the idea of meninism it has no real life applications and mainly only exists as a concept by the few straight/white/male people who see things like gay rights, Feminism and things like Black Lives Matter as an attack of their own freedoms. They're just a way to discredit the actual movements by saying 'BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEE!'.

A minority cannot oppress a majority so these concepts of the majority being oppressed by the minorities are all bull****. Prejudice can and does exist but to equate that to the idea of heterophobia is a ridiculous notion.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It exists in theory but not in reality. Like reverse racism and the idea of meninism it has no real life applications and mainly only exists as a concept by the few straight/white/male people who see things like gay rights, Feminism and things like Black Lives Matter as an attack of their own freedoms. They're just a way to discredit the actual movements by saying 'BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEE!'.

A minority cannot oppress a majority so these concepts of the majority being oppressed by the minorities are all bull****. Prejudice can and does exist but to equate that to the idea of heterophobia is a ridiculous notion.

I also don't believe in a thing called 'reverse racism'.It's just racism,Whoever is doing it and whoever is on the recieving end.
I experienced it as a white person when i was a teenager and it was frightening and offensive and insulting.
Sexism against men very much exists too.
Heterophobia i have actually never heard of a case and it would seem to be almost non existent.However 'almost' means that it has to exist.Something either exists or it does'nt.There's no grey area.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It exists in theory but not in reality. Like reverse racism and the idea of meninism it has no real life applications and mainly only exists as a concept by the few straight/white/male people who see things like gay rights, Feminism and things like Black Lives Matter as an attack of their own freedoms. They're just a way to discredit the actual movements by saying 'BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEE!'.

A minority cannot oppress a majority so these concepts of the majority being oppressed by the minorities are all bull****. Prejudice can and does exist but to equate that to the idea of heterophobia is a ridiculous notion.

Again; this topic has NOTHING whatsoever to do with majorities, minorities, or suppression - what don't you understand about this?

And again, you are making yet another 'sweeping statement' made with absolutely no evidence to back it up, when you state that 'Heterophobia' "exists in theory but not in reality", but then again, you just CANNOT obtain the neccessary evidence to corroborate and justify what you are saying, because you are not privy to what the entire straight community of the world has experienced regarding 'heterophobia'. No one is.

Conversely, I know personally at least two gay people who dislike, shun, avoid, and discriminate against the straight community for no valid reason other than they do not 'trust' them.

Finally, I claim that 'heterophobia' exists, but having spent most of my life in the company of gay people, frequenting gay clubs and pubs, and actively supporting the Campaign For Homosexual Equality in the 80's and Gay Rights since then, you are being offensive when you claim that I "see things like gay rights, Feminism and things like Black Lives Matter, as an attack" on my "own freedoms".

What is more, I fervently believe that your comments do not apply to anyone else on here who believes that heterophobia exists, either.

[Toy Soldier]

All I can really do Dezzy is point out again that the concept of "a phobia" has absolutely nothing to do with numbers, power or persecution. You're taking a stance based on something completely imaginary. I agree in general with the notion that straight people are highly unlikely, to the point of ridiculousness, to experience any sort of persecution for their sexuality. I agree that straight people will never really have any idea - beyond simple empathy - of that it's like to be in that sort of minority.

I completely disagree that any of that has anything to do with the word "heterophobia" or the existence of heterophobia either real or hypothetical. It just doesn't. It's an idea based purely on the perception that "heterophobia and homophobia must basically amount to the same thing" when, in fact, that is subjective and baseless. There is no such objective connotation.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

the opinions in this thread are so bad it gives me headaches

No, that's just what happens when you run out of prescribed buzzphrase-based counterarguments and have to try to come up with your own reasoning, in your own words, to justify your stance. Then realise you don't actually have any.

[waterhog]

I think a few people on this forum have poemphopia.

back to main question - we all should be equal but don't be naive to think everyone thinks like this.