[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Nobody's saying you can change it though. :cons:

You're still assuming this is all to do with influencing a person to make a conscious decision. It isn't.

Do you honestly think you'd be the exact same person you are today if you were brought up by another family? In another culture? Another country? etc etc

Sexuality is nothing to do with culture, what country you're in or what family you're brought up in. It's unique to a equally unique being.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Quasar

I don't like the idea of being told 'you're gay because of this' or 'oh that's why you're gay' it's a crock of ****. I'm gay because I'm gay, that's the way is. I can't change that.

Why are you being so hostile? I get the feeling it's because you still have the misconception that by arguing that sexuality is socialised you think people believe it's a choice and that it can be changed, and if so I need to categorically repeat it again - that is not the case. The two are not related.

You do not choose your sexuality, and you cannot change it. It is a moronic argument, but one that is totally separate from the idea that much like every other aspect of every human being on the planet, your sexuality is socialised, learned behaviour.

Yes you are gay because you're gay, but there are reasons why people are a lot of things, and they need to be researched and analysed so we can begin to understand the world we live in and why we are the way we are. Whether you wish to listen to that or not is up to you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be theorised about or isn't real though

[Jordan.]

The thought that you're born with all your preferences already determined seems wrong to me

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Sexuality is nothing to do with culture, what country you're in or what family you're brought up in. It's unique to a equally unique being.

I never said that. I'm suggesting everything about a person is a combination of everything that surrounds a person, who they interact with, the experiences they have, the childhood they had. It all comes together to make a person who they are.

It's not as simple as saying, you have a short temper because your mum does, you're straight because your dad is a religious homophobic etc. Humans are complex with many sides to them, all of which have some root in our experiences and our past.

Hence therapy and counselling helping people get to the root of things about themselves, discover things about themselves by looking back on their lives.

That's why babies are so bloody dull, , they haven't formed anything yet because they're new. As they grow you see their "person" form and change and adapt as they grow up due to a combination of EVERYTHING that makes them who they are.

I meant sexuality is just as much a part of you as everything else that you are, your personality traits and everything. All of which wouldn't be exactly the same if your life to date had been affected by different factors. Is that suggesting you chose to be gay? No. Is it suggesting you chose to be... I don't know... short tempered? Or hate baked beans? Or what sense of humour you have? No it means it's all formed from a bunch of variable factors that are different for everyone.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes but have you known from BIRTH? No. It's formed as you've grown up and then you reach sexual maturity and you're aware of what turns you on.

No one knows anything at birth except how to suck on a tit(the irony for a gay man) but I had an inkling when I was very young and I can't explain why I had that feeling. I didn't know what it was until I started to get them urges.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Quasar

No one knows anything at birth except how to suck on a tit(the irony for a gay man) but I had an inkling when I was very young and I can't explain why I had that feeling. I didn't know what it was until I started to get them urges.

Very young. That doesn't suggest you were born with that feeling. It still developed, just as EVERYTHING about a person develops after birth.

I'm not suggesting you can't be a gay six year old (albeit without knowing about sex at that age). But that six year old hasn't been gay from birth.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Quasar

No one knows anything at birth except how to suck on a tit(the irony for a gay man) but I had an inkling when I was very young and I can't explain why I had that feeling. I didn't know what it was until I started to get them urges.

Yeah, for me at least, I knew I was different from a young age. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but when I realised I was gay it felt almost like I had always known it.

That sounded so deep

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

The thought that you're born with all your preferences already determined seems wrong to me

Because it is wrong, like I said we are all born pretty much as blank slates and the people we become is the product of the environment we are born into

Like, it's actually a hilarious notion to me to think that there's a female foetus floating around in the womb right now that is already wanting a Barbie doll, is looking forward to watching The Apprentice, likes Taylor Swift, has a Scouse accent, eats with their knife and fork the 'wrong way round', gesticulates a lot when speaking and is ravenous for some cock

From the second a child is born they are learning about what this bizarre place is and in the process every inch of their personality and identity is being formed. There is nothing inherent about any of it, it is all a product of socialisation

[JoshBB]

I remember my Psychology teacher mentioning we'll be looking at sexuality in a few months..

so I'll report back to yall and provide you with the deets

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Very young. That doesn't suggest you were born with that feeling. It still developed, just as EVERYTHING about a person develops after birth.

But it still developed at a very young age. I'm talking 5-6yrs old. I still had a hell of a lot of developing to do which is why I don't favour the nuture argument.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yeah, for me at least, I knew I was different from a young age. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but when I realised I was gay it felt almost like I had always known it.

That sounded so deep

That's how it feels for everyone. That's not a counter argument against the "nurture" stuff.

We can all only remember being who we are because that's the way it is.

I can't remember being inside mother as a baby with no knowledge of anything.

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because it is wrong, like I said we are all born pretty much as blank slates and the people we become is the product of the environment we are born into

Like, it's actually a hilarious notion to me to think that there's a female foetus floating around in the womb right now that is already wanting a Barbie doll, is looking forward to watching The Apprentice, likes Taylor Swift, has a Scouse accent, eats with their knife and fork the 'wrong way round', gesticulates a lot when speaking and is ravenous for some cock

From the second a child is born they are learning about what this bizarre place is and in the process every inch of their personality and identity is being formed. There is nothing inherent about any of it, it is all a product of socialisation

Screaming at the middle part. Yeah I agree with you though.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Quasar

But it still developed at a very young age. I'm talking 5-6yrs old. I still had a hell of a lot of developing to do which is why I don't favour the nuture argument.

Yes, you still had a lot of developing to do, in all areas of who you are as a person.

Nobody is saying you've developed into a homosexual at 5 and then your dad's shouting developed you to a heterosexual by age 10.

But whatever age you can say you "knew" you were gay or whatever else, it still developed AFTER birth.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's how it feels for everyone. That's not a counter argument against the "nurture" stuff.

We can all only remember being who we are because that's the way it is.

I can't remember being inside mother as a baby with no knowledge of anything.

Oh that wasn't a counter-argument, just thought you might find it relatable or something

[Rob!]

The only form of penetration I can do is to stick it in a hole that **** comes out of. Why would I choose that?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I remember my Psychology teacher mentioning we'll be looking at sexuality in a few months..

so I'll report back to yall and provide you with the deets

I expect a lot of it will be rooted in nature, as is naturally usually the case with psychology

Originally Posted by Quasar

But it still developed at a very young age. I'm talking 5-6yrs old. I still had a hell of a lot of developing to do which is why I don't favour the nuture argument.

Your sexuality will have absolutely been established by that age, we're not talking about sexuality forming in puberty, it will have been rooted in the very early developmental stages of a child's life along with gender (before you would even consciously think about it), but that doesn't mean it's not a thing

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

The only form of penetration I can do is to stick it in a hole that **** comes out of. Why would I choose that?

Because you like scat?

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because you like scat?

See you in six months

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

See you in six months

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because you like scat?

[Glenn.]

I didn't realise people were being that literal with the thread. Of course I don't think that there are gay babies being born and they are aware of it. But the phrase, 'born gay' is just a phrase.
I don't feel I was nurtured in anyway to be gay. There wasn't anything that helped me sway towards men, nothing that influenced it, which is basically what the nuture argument is about.
When a gay person says I was born gay, they mean that at the time they felt a bit differently or acted a bit differently, looking back when they knew what that meant, it's easy to say, 'I've been gay for a very long time'

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Like, it's actually a hilarious notion to me to think that there's a female foetus floating around in the womb right now that is already wanting a Barbie doll, is looking forward to watching The Apprentice, likes Taylor Swift, has a Scouse accent, eats with their knife and fork the 'wrong way round', gesticulates a lot when speaking and is ravenous for some cock

oh my god

[Glenn.]

Anyway I'm going to watch some very hardcore gay porn and forget this thread exists. Goodnight

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Anyway I'm going to watch some very hardcore gay porn and forget this thread exists. Goodnight

Have fun

[Rob!]

For what it's worth though:

I was sexually attracted to both boys and girls when I was at school. I even remember feeling whatever a six year old's equivalent of being aroused is about boys in primary.
I've slept with two women but then after my first experience with a guy when I was sixteen it was like girls became an instant thing of the past and I haven't been even remotely attracted to once since.
I'd love to be bisexual - in that I'd love the opportunity to be able to fall in love with both sexes but it just doesn't seem to be like that in my brain. Hell I hate being gay tbh - it's awful a lot of the time and there are a lot of twats in the gay community.
If a woman comes into my life that I happen to fall in love with then it won't be something that I fight, I'll go in () and see what happens though.