[Johnnyuk123]

When a black man says ****** that is ok but when a white man says it all hell breaks loose. Music videos for instance. Only black men can use that term freely. As soon as a white man reopeats that term OMG!!!!

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Dollface

"Reverse racism" doesn't exist because it doesn't make sense, but "Racism" does and racism can be towards anyone of any race.

So a black man insulting a white man never happened?

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think I should add to this that I don't at all think it's "racist" to have things like black history month, celebrate music of black origins, or any of the other celebrations of identity that "white people don't have" and it IS ridiculous when people claim that they are or try to pretend that for "equality" we would need white equivalents. Obviously, we don't, and all of these things are great positives.

However pointing out that those things are clearly not racist doesn't mean that it "doesn't exist", in many other scenarios.

once again, totally agree.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

When a black man says ****** that is ok but when a white man says it all hell breaks loose. Music videos for instance. Only black men can use that term freely. As soon as a white man reopeats that term OMG!!!!

Because white people invented the word as a derogatory term and some black people have reclaimed it for their own use as a term of endearment or solidarity. If a white person uses it, it hearkens back to it's original meaning.

A better question would be why are you so pressed that it's not socially acceptable for you to use it? In what situation would you, a white person, ever need or want to say it? Why then is it such an issue for you?

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

So a black man insulting a white man never happened?

Did you actually read my post? It says very clearly that anyone of any race can be racist

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because white people invented the word as a derogatory term and some black people have reclaimed it for their own use as a term of endearment or solidarity. If a white person uses it, it hearkens back to it's original meaning.

A better question would be why are you so pressed that it's not socially acceptable for you to use it? In what situation would you, a white person, ever need or want to say it? Why then is it such an issue for you?

Totally agree with this. I will never understand the desire for a white person to so desperately want to use the N-word.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

When a black man says ****** that is ok but when a white man says it all hell breaks loose. Music videos for instance. Only black men can use that term freely. As soon as a white man reopeats that term OMG!!!!

Is that not for pretty obvious reasons though? Jesus Christ?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think I should add to this that I don't at all think it's "racist" to have things like black history month, celebrate music of black origins, or any of the other celebrations of identity that "white people don't have" and it IS ridiculous when people claim that they are or try to pretend that for "equality" we would need white equivalents. Obviously, we don't, and all of these things are great positives.

However pointing out that those things are clearly not racist doesn't mean that it "doesn't exist", in many other scenarios.

Same.I have nothing at all against people having things from their own culture to teach them and remind them of their roots.

[kirklancaster]

So the Moral Of The Story Is:

Never buy a car from a racist - it has no reverse gear?

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No you don't. I'm baffled about where this misunderstanding had spawned from, it's such a popular opinion these days but it's simply incorrect. It's just... Not the case. Racism implies intent, not consequence, therefore ANY individual of ANY ethnicity who dislikes, stereotypes, or otherwise insults ANY other individual or group of individuals, based arbitrarily on their race, is being racist. What happens afterwards, how affected the other person was (if at all) is irrelevant.

The only explanation I can think of is that someone, at some point, heard someone else say that only a majority race (in the West, white people) can be and often are institutionally racist and got confused and thought it applied to all racism and then that idea spread. But it doesn't apply. It's a misunderstanding of what the term means and implies.

You've defined prejudice. Racial prejudice can exist towards any race/ethnicity. But that is not the same as racism - which is institutional, practiced, and embedded in history.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

You've defined prejudice. Racial prejudice can exist towards any race/ethnicity. But that is not the same as racism - which is institutional, practiced, and embedded in history.

Semantics, Josh. What is the subtle difference between racism and racial prejudice? They're both hateful. And any race can be racist against another race just like people from any religion can be prejudice against other religions. It's all hate. Giving it precise little labels justifies it. Hate is hate is hate.

[RichardG]

Going by the definition Niamh posted I'd say that 'reverse racism' isn't really 'racism' as such and unless all workplaces and so on hired a significant majority of one race in favour of others then it really isn't an issue.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Anyway short answer from me; Racism exists in all forms, against all ethnicities. If a white person walks through a "black neighbourhood" in Los Angeles and feels threatened or experiences harassment because of their skin colour, then that is racism. Full stop.

INSTITUTIONAL racism does not exist in any meaningful form against white people in the west. It ----*does exist*----, however, in some Asian countries such as Japan and the Koreas. I've had people argue against me on this one on here before but it does exist. It is a fact.

Agree with this about racism in general though. It can exist against anyone of any race and as someone implied earlier, people shouldn't be shamed or made to feel silly about being offended if someone held racist or any other type of prejudiced views against them just because they've never been oppressed.

[Samuel.]

Originally Posted by RichardG

people shouldn't be shamed or made to feel silly about being offended if someone held racist or any other type of prejudiced views against them just because they've never been oppressed.

Very true.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Livia

Semantics, Josh. What is the subtle difference between racism and racial prejudice? They're both hateful. And any race can be racist against another race just like people from any religion can be prejudice against other religions. It's all hate. Giving it precise little labels justifies it. Hate is hate is hate.

I've just defined what racism is for you. The institutional practice of discriminating against people of a certain race - this does not exist against white people anywhere in the world. With colonialism in our history, it will be very difficult for that to happen as well, so I don't see it in the near future.

Prejudice does not equal discrimination. It can lead to it, but they are not the same.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I've just defined what racism is for you. The institutional practice of discriminating against people of a certain race - this does not exist against white people anywhere in the world. With colonialism in our history, it will be very difficult for that to happen as well, so I don't see it in the near future.

Prejudice does not equal discrimination. It can lead to it, but they are not the same.

No,You have described institutional racism.That does not describe racism as a whole.Just one aspect of it.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I've just defined what racism is for you. The institutional practice of discriminating against people of a certain race - this does not exist against white people anywhere in the world. With colonialism in our history, it will be very difficult for that to happen as well, so I don't see it in the near future.

Prejudice does not equal discrimination. It can lead to it, but they are not the same.

You are coming across as anti-semantic Josh.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

No,You have described institutional racism.That does not describe racism as a whole.Just one aspect of it.

You are SERIOUSLY trying to knock a nail in a very dense knot Paul. Wasting your time mate.

[Northern Monkey]

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"theories of racism"
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

I don't know how many times this needs copy/pasting on here but could somebody please point to me in the above definition where the words "power","privilege","institutional"(ised) are?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You are SERIOUSLY trying to knock a nail in a very dense knot Paul. Wasting your time mate.

You are right.Some things are best left alone for sanity's sake

[user104658]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I've just defined what racism is for you. The institutional practice of discriminating against people of a certain race - this does not exist against white people anywhere in the world. With colonialism in our history, it will be very difficult for that to happen as well, so I don't see it in the near future.

Prejudice does not equal discrimination. It can lead to it, but they are not the same.

You're incorrect Josh and I'm going to have to say, your inflexibility is sometimes in dangerous proximity to arrogance. You've defined what racism means to you which is indistinguishable from institutional racism. I don't know what to say. You're wrong and / or misinformed.

"prejudice on the ground of race" and "racism" are not different things... They have exactly the same meaning and exactly the same implications.

You seem to be very focused on discrimination. Discrimination CAN be a result of racism but it need not necessarily be present in order for someone to be racist.

In other words, discrimination can be a consequence of racism but it is NOT part of the definition.

[lostalex]

I don't know what reverse racism really means... I'm guessing it means like that south park episode when Stan is ostracized and abused because people see him as a racist...

Are racists also abused by people and treated poorly just because they are a racist? yes.

Being accused of racism these days it's like being called a pedophile. just the accusation itself is a way to abuse and discriminate against people, even if there is no truth behind the accusation.

If you are asking if it's possible for racial minorities to be racist? then it's an absolute YES. all of the most racist things i've ever heard in my life have been from racial minorities especially blacks. If you heard the things i've heard black people say about asian people and latino people....well let's just say if a white person had said those same things they would have been stoned to death by everyone around them.

[Ammi]

..not using my on words but this was quite an interesting explanation on something I found..which also mentions 'heterophobia' as well...


http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/08/...-white-people/

..anyway, I'll only post bits of sections but the link is there as well..


Precision of Language

Yes. Any person of any identity can be an asshole to any person of any other identity. But that doesn’t make it oppression. It doesn’t even make it racism or sexism or heterosexim or any other -ism.

There is a profound danger in watering down our discussion of identity by removing any mention of societal power, oppression, and privilege.

Doing so ensures that the conversation remains about interpersonal slights rather than about the larger systems of oppression that are the true problem.

Now, this is not to say, that the real issue is the system, so I can say whatever I want, and it shouldn’t matter. Not at all.

Our interpersonal interactions are reflections of and support structures for the larger problems of systematic inequality and oppression.

Instead, we need to recognize that not all hurtful words or deeds are equal when certain ones are backed by a history and current system of domination, violence, oppression, repression, dehumanization, and degradation.

We need to be clear that when we are talking about oppression or a particular -ism, we are not simply talking about an interpersonal slight. We are talking about something much bigger.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..not using my on words but this was quite an interesting explanation on something I found..which also mentions 'heterophobia' as well...


http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/08/...-white-people/

..anyway, I'll only post bits of sections but the link is there as well..


Precision of Language

Yes. Any person of any identity can be an asshole to any person of any other identity. But that doesn’t make it oppression. It doesn’t even make it racism or sexism or heterosexim or any other -ism.

There is a profound danger in watering down our discussion of identity by removing any mention of societal power, oppression, and privilege.

Doing so ensures that the conversation remains about interpersonal slights rather than about the larger systems of oppression that are the true problem.

Now, this is not to say, that the real issue is the system, so I can say whatever I want, and it shouldn’t matter. Not at all.

Our interpersonal interactions are reflections of and support structures for the larger problems of systematic inequality and oppression.

Instead, we need to recognize that not all hurtful words or deeds are equal when certain ones are backed by a history and current system of domination, violence, oppression, repression, dehumanization, and degradation.

We need to be clear that when we are talking about oppression or a particular -ism, we are not simply talking about an interpersonal slight. We are talking about something much bigger.

who ever wrote that bit of nonsense that you just reposted Ammi, is an idiot. They couldn't be more wrong.

People are not systems, and people are not responsible for the actions of similar people, and generalizing about people based on race is racism itself, no matter what race that person is.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You are SERIOUSLY trying to knock a nail in a very dense knot Paul. Wasting your time mate.

Everyone is wasting their time then as I have never seen anyone change stance on anything in here, they just provide a counter argument so I think your post is a bit unfair.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..not using my on words but this was quite an interesting explanation on something I found..which also mentions 'heterophobia' as well...


http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/08/...-white-people/

..anyway, I'll only post bits of sections but the link is there as well..


Precision of Language

Yes. Any person of any identity can be an asshole to any person of any other identity. But that doesn’t make it oppression. It doesn’t even make it racism or sexism or heterosexim or any other -ism.

There is a profound danger in watering down our discussion of identity by removing any mention of societal power, oppression, and privilege.

Doing so ensures that the conversation remains about interpersonal slights rather than about the larger systems of oppression that are the true problem.

Now, this is not to say, that the real issue is the system, so I can say whatever I want, and it shouldn’t matter. Not at all.

Our interpersonal interactions are reflections of and support structures for the larger problems of systematic inequality and oppression.

Instead, we need to recognize that not all hurtful words or deeds are equal when certain ones are backed by a history and current system of domination, violence, oppression, repression, dehumanization, and degradation.

We need to be clear that when we are talking about oppression or a particular -ism, we are not simply talking about an interpersonal slight. We are talking about something much bigger.

So according to this.I can go into say an Arab country for instance and start calling people 'rag heads' or other similar language and i'm not actually being racist?Just an asshole.

I don't agree with this.I think it is quite ridiculous.I think it's just a way to excuse racism in the west from non whites.

Racism is racism and non of it should be excused from anybody,No matter their colour.