[Dominic]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

okay I'm gonna open this can of worms, Danielle is an amazing houseguest it cannot be denied but she is really overrated as a player. Yeah she had a lot of control but decided to take two very strong social players to the final 3 and had no chance of winning.

She would have a great chance of winning if she'd compete now, she purely lost because of a bitter jury.

[LemonJam]

Originally Posted by Brenda.

She would have a great chance of winning if she'd compete now, she purely lost because of a bitter jury.

Jury management is a huge part of the game and it's a big part of what makes shows like Survivor/Big Brother so great. Lisa had an incredible social game and everybody there was her friend so taking her so deep into the game was a huge mistake.

[Dominic]

Agreed with all but Danielle's flaw wasn't jury management, it was mostly her DR's (that were seen by the "jury")

[Dylan95]

Jordan & Rachel

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

okay I'm gonna open this can of worms, Danielle is an amazing houseguest it cannot be denied but she is really overrated as a player. Yeah she had a lot of control but decided to take two very strong social players to the final 3 and had no chance of winning.

THANK YOU Danielle's only options at the final three were to lose 9-1 or 10-0, so considering the control she had throughout the game she really set herself up for failure. She and Jason getting rid of Amy at F4 is easily the worst move that nobody ever likes to bring up.

Originally Posted by LemonJam

and to add Lisa is a really underrated player and even Danielle herself admitted recently on twitter that had the jury been in sequester she probably still would've lost.

mhmm Lisa's social game was really darn good. I really don't get the myth behind the DRs being the reason why Danielle lost because if you ignore the DRs Lisa still has a decent number of votes already? Eric and Roddy for sure, Chiara and Josh by extension, prooobably Marcellas, and then probably Tonya and/or Amy as well? I don't think anyone went into it wanting to vote for Danielle and then changed their vote only because of the DRs. I just think that being able to see the DRs allowed all the jurors to double down and do what they already wanted to do. Lisa definitely deserves the credit that she rarely gets because she kicked her game up a notch with the returnee twist and was just really darn likable? She was tight with at least half the jury and was someone that people wanted to give the money to.

Originally Posted by LemonJam

Jury management is a huge part of the game and it's a big part of what makes shows like Survivor/Big Brother so great. Lisa had an incredible social game and everybody there was her friend so taking her so deep into the game was a huge mistake.

mhmm like I said, the fact that people kept Lisa in when she was someone who everyone liked and didn't have an issue giving the money to is a huge plus for her game. I know that the show tries to push forward the idea that there was a double standard between how the jury treated Will and how they treated Danielle, but I don't really see it much at all. I think there's a lot more similarities between Nicole and Danielle and how they played the game and how the jury perceived them, so I think that there was some consistency there.

Also for bitter juries, I find the whole idea of bitter juries garbage? There isn't a set of rules as to how the jury needs to vote so it can't be unfair when a jury doesn't vote for The Correct Winner, since we all have different ideas of who the correct winner should be. And, like, if the "robbed" person handpicked the jury like Danielle in BB3 and Dan in BB14 pretty much did and they couldn't get the votes, that reflects entirely on them rather than the juries.

[Calderyon]

Oh yeah, i forgot about them keeping Lisa, who the jury liked and who hasn´t pissed anybody off, instead of Amy, who the jury liked less, partly because of her coming back after being evicted.

That was idiotic and didn´t make any sense. But that was a different time and the game was still relatively young.

[Macie Lightfoot]

It's a move that really doesn't get brought up a lot. If Danielle's in the end with Amy she can just say "look, she was already evicted once" and have a much better shot at winning. Once Amy was gone so were Danielle's chances of winning.

[Dominic]

If this was a modern season Lisa would have won 5-4 atleast.

[Calderyon]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

It's a move that really doesn't get brought up a lot. If Danielle's in the end with Amy she can just say "look, she was already evicted once" and have a much better shot at winning. Once Amy was gone so were Danielle's chances of winning.

I do agree that when they decided to evict Amy instead of Lisa, their chances to win diminished considerably. Have they taken Amy to final 3, either Danielle or Jason would have won the game as the evicted ones would have been too caught up on the fact that Amy was evicted and came back and seed that as a huge "injustice" towards the ones still in the game.

[Calderyon]

Full ranking of winners:

1. Will
2. Dan
3. Ian
4. Rachel
5. Jun
6. Drew
7. Boogie
8. Jordan
9. Dick
10. Hayden
11. Steve
12. Adam
13. Lisa
14. Maggie
15. Derrick
16. Andy

[JerseyWins]

Seeing this list makes me realize there hasn't been a whole lot of winners that I really liked. Definitely many that I kinda supported or at least found tolerable but not many that I was a huge fan of.

Dan definitely gets my vote.

[DrunkerThanMoses]

I like a lot of them, but went for Steve because no one else was going to vote for him lol

Rachel and her rigged win is in the lead?

At least have someone deserving like Will, Jun or Dan in the lead. Heck even Andy was a better winner, he didnt need production help to win like Rachel did.

[Calderyon]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Seeing this list makes me realize there hasn't been a whole lot of winners that I really liked. Definitely many that I kinda supported or at least found tolerable but not many that I was a huge fan of.

Dan definitely gets my vote.

What would be your full list, Jersey?

[Raph]

My top 5 winners:

1. Dan
2. Jun
3. Maggie
4. Drew
5. Rachel

[JerseyWins]

1. Dan (BB10)
2. Boogie (BB7)
3. Hayden (BB12)
4. Derrick (BB16)
5. Steve (BB17) (borderline orange)
6. Adam (BB9) (I guess?)
7. Rachel (BB13)
8. Ian (BB14)
9. Maggie (BB6) (I guess?)
10. Evel Dick (BB8)
11. Jordan (BB11)
12. Andy (BB15)

[Calderyon]

^ What about the 4 others? You only have 12 there.

[Dominic]

How was Rachel's win rigged? People make it out that the F6 twist saved Rachel, it saved Jordan, Rachel would have won that endurance comp and saved herself and it would have played out with her winning anyway. That twist saved Jordan. Therefore Rachel's win in no way was a rig.

Plus I'm sure people who voted for Rachel voted for her because she's an iconic queen. Not everyone votes based on how the season comes out or based on gameplay.

[Raph]

Wow I only just realized that only 5 women have won BBUSA :/

[Raph]

Has a woman ever beaten a man in a F2 scenario?

[Calderyon]

^ Not in BBUSA. Had Vanessa made it to the end, it might have. Thankfully she didn´t. (Not because a woman shouldn´t win over a man, but because Vanessa the annoyance as the first one to do that would be hard/impossible to take.)

On BBCAN it happened though.

[lostalex]

Jun. i liked her as a person, and i respected her game. She was totally in control most of the game, the few times she wasn't, she was able to improvise like a master. And i just think she seems like a cool chick, so i like her as a person too.

Jun was the best BB player ever. (and i kind of had a crush on her ex on the show Jin, he was hot and cute too!)

[Kate!]

The only two I know are Dan and Ian tbh not watched this nearly enough. Dan was a worthy winner imo, full of life and enthusiasm.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Raph

Wow I only just realized that only 5 women have won BBUSA :/

It could be worse, the USA public could vote which could lead to more men winning.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LukeB

It could be worse, the USA public could vote which could lead to more men winning.

that's not necessarily true. i actually think more women and gay men would have won by now if it it was up to the US public, considering the demographic of BBUSA watchers. and i think a lot of the obnoxious hyper-masculine dumb straight-guy stereotype males would have been voted out a lot sooner.

I truly doubt Hayden would have made it to the final if the public was voting.

[LukeB]

Then why do the women get the more hate than men? Cristine/Coby Cristine got all the slack and even got booed Coby didn't.. BB15 Aaryn got most of the slack and the men didn't get none. If a female acted like evil dick they would get slated