[Kizzy]

Following on from a discussion on the sugar tax thread ( that I was derailing sorry DR)

How much alcohol or how often pushes someone into alcohol dependency I never thought about it before, is one glass daily too much if you need it to unwind...is it a habit or an addiction?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Certainly people have personalities that lend themselves to addiction or at least to go beyond what most people would be happy with.

So in those cases recommended units will be of little help


In the UK we celebrate alcohol abuse - a hangover at work is treated like a badge of honour etc

[Kizzy]

If you have a glass with an evening meal everyday for 10yrs are you an addict?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you have a glass with an evening meal everyday for 10yrs are you an addict?

Prob is Kizzy there is no definition of what an alcoholic is really, no one really knows.

You can see an alky in the street at 10am on a can of Special Brew and think yep there is one but what about the professional couple who drink 2 bottles of wine a night 7 days a week plus a bottle and half of Gin at the weekend?

Its a very grey area

[jennyjuniper]

The amount doesn't really matter, it's whether you can live without it or not.

[Calderyon]

Taking any at all imo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

The amount doesn't really matter, it's whether you can live without it or not.

well it does really

if you cant live without half a glass of beer a day you are not likely to come to any harm


if its a bottle of spirits then you will

[Crimson Dynamo]

try telling most folks to give up caffeine or sugar

[kirklancaster]

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

try telling most folks to give up caffeine or sugar

Otherwise known as socially acceptable addictions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

Well alcohol affects all drinkers health Kirk, getting drunk is not good for anyone


And how many folk do you know who have had a terrible hangover but still drink?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Well alcohol affects all drinkers health Kirk, getting drunk is not good for anyone


And how many folk do you know who have had a terrible hangover but still drink?

Exactly LT - So they have a form of 'Alcoholism'. Obviously as in any illness, there are many degrees of alcoholism, but I think my definition comes closest to answering the OP.

Alcoholc abuse is the cause of more misery in the world than any other substance abuse.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

So if you drink 2 bottles of wine a day, feel well and are perfectly behaved you're fine to continue?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Exactly LT - So they have a form of 'Alcoholism'. Obviously as in any illness, there are many degrees of alcoholism, but I think my definition comes closest to answering the OP.

Alcoholc abuse is the cause of more misery in the world than any other substance abuse.

that would half the adult population in the UK

[AnnieK]

I enjoy a drink but if I was told tomorrow that I could never drink again I would be able to do it - I wouldn't be overly impressed but I would definitely not suffer because of it

[bots]

i think the clearest indication of alcoholism is when it impairs your ability to perform your normal daily functions and/or it disrupts the lives of your friends and family.

Plenty people drink lots and function fine, others just don't

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I enjoy a drink but if I was told tomorrow that I could never drink again I would be able to do it - I wouldn't be overly impressed but I would definitely not suffer because of it

the classic denial of the alcoholic

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So if you drink 2 bottles of wine a day, feel well and are perfectly behaved you're fine to continue?

Yes Kiz - IF your own unique constitution affords you to tolerate such consumption WITHOUT adversely afecting your health.

Health apart, some people can drink copious amounts of alcohol without ill effect nor altering their social behaviour, others can have just a couple of drinks and turn into aggressive, trouble causers.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the classic denial of the alcoholic

Poor Annie.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://ncadd.org/get-help/take-the-...olic-self-test

take this test and dont lie and report back

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Exactly LT - So they have a form of 'Alcoholism'. Obviously as in any illness, there are many degrees of alcoholism, but I think my definition comes closest to answering the OP.

Alcoholc abuse is the cause of more misery in the world than any other substance abuse.

No sorry it doesn't, and there are not degrees of alcoholism.
I wanted to know if enjoying alcohol socially regularly as part of a end of daily/ weekly habit.

G&T after work or bottle of wine with a movie on weekends, if you found it hard to break that routine are you an alcoholic?

If you go out once a month and get so off your face you can't stand are you an alcoholic?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

https://ncadd.org/get-help/take-the-...olic-self-test

take this test and dont lie and report back

I took it truthfully. Here's my result:

Your Results
In Your Self Test 4 Answer(s) Caused Concern
You Are At Risk
The results suggest you are at risk for developing problems with alcohol. You should consider arranging a personal meeting with a professional who has experience in the evaluation of alcohol problems.

And I am virtually TEE TOTAL these days.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Yes Kiz - IF your own unique constitution affords you to tolerate such consumption WITHOUT adversely afecting your health.

Health apart, some people can drink copious amounts of alcohol without ill effect nor altering their social behaviour, others can have just a couple of drinks and turn into aggressive, trouble causers.

2 bottles of wine is roughly 20 units of alcohol and 1000 calories, anyone who thinks consuming this much regularly will not have an adverse effect even if you don't notice at the time they are deluding themselves. It will ultimately have one.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

2 bottles of wine is roughly 20 units of alcohol and 1000 calories, anyone who thinks consuming this much regularly will not have an adverse effect even if you don't notice at the time they are deluding themselves. It will ultimately have one.

Hece, my use of an emboldened 'IF'.

[user104658]

I'm just going to copy and paste from the sugar thread, because I'm lazy ...

Speaking as someone who watched an addict develop, progress and die: I see the kindling of potential alcohol problems everywhere I look. Often the only difference between someone who "just needs a wee glass of wine to wind down in the evening" and full-blown 2 bottles a day alcoholism is one personal tragedy.

If someone uses small amounts of alcohol to deal with low-level everyday stress, then they are at massive risk of turning to large amounts of alcohol to deal with very high stress situations. Basically. VAST numbers of people do the former and are simply lucky enough to never face anything big enough to tip the scales.

I accept that my perceptions are coloured by personal experience, but not totally. I am capable of acknowledging healthy, social alcohol use... I'm not someone who thinks alcohol is the root of all evil. However, if it's being used as self-medication (and yes, that includes drinking small amounts in the evening to alleviate stress) then it has the potential to become a problem. Not always, and not for everyone, but it's not a healthy use of the substance.

Also, having encountered this in more situations than just my own personal experiences, and discussed ( / argued) the point with a fair few people... I think you'd find that many of those people who "don't need" that one glass have a suspiciously strong inability to actually not have it when pushed.

I find that there's a strong misconception that alcoholism is only alcoholism when it becomes problematic and starts to affect someone's work and personal life, if they can't go a day without a drink, etc... But that isn't the case. The world is absolutely full of functional, successful people with unacknowledged low-level alcohol dependancies.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I took it truthfully. Here's my result:

Your Results
In Your Self Test 4 Answer(s) Caused Concern
You Are At Risk
The results suggest you are at risk for developing problems with alcohol. You should consider arranging a personal meeting with a professional who has experience in the evaluation of alcohol problems.

And I am virtually TEE TOTAL these days.

That test is nonsense, it says I'm at risk even though I only had ONE "concerning" answer (blood relative with alcoholism). Which is a risk factor, yeah, but I don't think it's enough to warrant me seeking professional help! "Doctor I think I have an alcohol problem! My signs are that my mother had an alcohol problem. Plays halp meh."

That said, her entire side of the family seems to have had a problem. Both of my grandparents on that side did (I only found this out recently reading through some of my mum's therapy notes after she died) and her sister was a seriously full-blown, wandering-the-streets-half-dressed, stealing-vodka-from-supermarket, crazy alcoholic.

Funnily enough though, my aunt is now completely teetotal and has been for 10+ years, after hitting rock bottom with it. My mum managed to keep just far enough from rock bottom for long enough for it to wreck her liver. Guess if you start, it's better to just bottom out and try to rebound?