[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

I disagree with that. As I said above, there are many very successful people (socially, career wise, etc.) who have a low-level dependancy on using alcohol at the end of the day to deal with stress. It's not always obvious. And like I said a lot of people go through their whole life like that with no issues. But these are the people who, on some level, do use alcohol as a "crutch" when it comes down to it, and if / when something "major" DOES happen in their life (a death, a family scandal, bankruptcy) they are at very high risk of simply increasing their alcohol intake to deal with the increased stress. I'd say they already have an alcohol dependancy. Just not one that's hugely affecting their life.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Hece, my use of an emboldened 'IF'.

It's never 'if'... it's ' when'.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm just going to copy and paste from the sugar thread, because I'm lazy ...

Speaking as someone who watched an addict develop, progress and die: I see the kindling of potential alcohol problems everywhere I look. Often the only difference between someone who "just needs a wee glass of wine to wind down in the evening" and full-blown 2 bottles a day alcoholism is one personal tragedy.

If someone uses small amounts of alcohol to deal with low-level everyday stress, then they are at massive risk of turning to large amounts of alcohol to deal with very high stress situations. Basically. VAST numbers of people do the former and are simply lucky enough to never face anything big enough to tip the scales.

I accept that my perceptions are coloured by personal experience, but not totally. I am capable of acknowledging healthy, social alcohol use... I'm not someone who thinks alcohol is the root of all evil. However, if it's being used as self-medication (and yes, that includes drinking small amounts in the evening to alleviate stress) then it has the potential to become a problem. Not always, and not for everyone, but it's not a healthy use of the substance.

Also, having encountered this in more situations than just my own personal experiences, and discussed ( / argued) the point with a fair few people... I think you'd find that many of those people who "don't need" that one glass have a suspiciously strong inability to actually not have it when pushed.

I find that there's a strong misconception that alcoholism is only alcoholism when it becomes problematic and starts to affect someone's work and personal life, if they can't go a day without a drink, etc... But that isn't the case. The world is absolutely full of functional, successful people with unacknowledged low-level alcohol dependancies.



That test is nonsense, it says I'm at risk even though I only had ONE "concerning" answer (blood relative with alcoholism). Which is a risk factor, yeah, but I don't think it's enough to warrant me seeking professional help! "Doctor I think I have an alcohol problem! My signs are that my mother had an alcohol problem. Plays halp meh."

That said, her entire side of the family seems to have had a problem. Both of my grandparents on that side did (I only found this out recently reading through some of my mum's therapy notes after she died) and her sister was a seriously full-blown, wandering-the-streets-half-dressed, stealing-vodka-from-supermarket, crazy alcoholic.

Funnily enough though, my aunt is now completely teetotal and has been for 10+ years, after hitting rock bottom with it. My mum managed to keep just far enough from rock bottom for long enough for it to wreck her liver. Guess if you start, it's better to just bottom out and try to rebound?

It breaks my heart reading your posts sometimes TS

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you have a glass with an evening meal everyday for 10yrs are you an addict?

Only if you need to have that glass of wine.

We always imagine alcoholics to drink large quantities of alcohol, I think you can be a one glass a day person and still be an alcoholic, though obviously 1 glass of wine a day isn't going to do you much harm.

Then again it depends on the size of the glass

[Kizzy]

That would see a heck of a lot of people reclassified as functioning alcoholics then

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Only if you need to have that glass of wine.

We always imagine alcoholics to drink large quantities of alcohol, I think you can be a one glass a day person and still be an alcoholic, though obviously 1 glass of wine a day isn't going to do you much harm.

Then again it depends on the size of the glass

and how would you decide on "need"

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and how would you decide on "need"

..I think for me, a part of that would be if someone's coping abilities were lessened through not having that glass/those glasses of wine...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think for me, a part of that would be if someone's coping abilities were lessened through not having that glass/those glasses of wine...

too vague Ammi

to open to interpretation


how would you tell?


millions of adults come home and self medicate a hard day with a glass of wine per night and then get on it more at the weekend

[Jessica.]

I don't drink so anything more than a mouthful is too much.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

too vague Ammi

to open to interpretation


how would you tell?


millions of adults come home and self medicate a hard day with a glass of wine per night and then get on it more at the weekend

..and for some it would be fine..(obviously apart from if there were any physical health implications..)...and for others, it wouldn't because it's not a 'one size fits all thing'...

[AnnieK]

It is so difficult to explain.. I love a drink (as I've said lol, maybe I do have a problem), although I rarely drink to get drunk and when I went through a highly stressful time last year I didn't touch a drop. However, I know lots of people through work who have very successful careers and they regularly say they can't sleep without drink. It doesn't affect them career wise or in any other way but I don't know much about their personal lives but needing a drink to get to sleep would classify them in my mind as functioning alcoholics although I am sure they would disagree

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Following on from a discussion on the sugar tax thread ( that I was derailing sorry DR)

How much alcohol or how often pushes someone into alcohol dependency I never thought about it before, is one glass daily too much if you need it to unwind...is it a habit or an addiction?

addiction has nothing to do with a particular addictive substance. someone with the disease of addiction will be an addict even if they grew up on an island with no drugs. addiction is a mental disorder like anorexia. (actually anorexia is considered to be on the addiction spectrum)

It's a personality disorder. physical addiction to chemicals is just a possible symptom of the mental disorder.

Addiction is more like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder if you had to compare it to anything. and many Addicts also suffer from OCD like tendencies too.

alcohol for an addict is like a medication. alcohol is not the problem, addiction is the problem, alcohol is the solution to the problem.

addiction makes you feel like you are helpless, desperate, paranoid, anxious, and addicts seek out ways to stop those feelings, like alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex, food, danger, risks, anything that will cause our brains to be stimulated and distract us from the horrible feelings underneath.

but there is no cure for the horrible feelings underneath, just self-medication. just whatever we can do to try to not feel the horrible feelings of addiction.

that is addiction.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I once met a woman who told me she downed a half bottle of Vodka in like 10 mins as she was choking for a drink - she then spewed a lot of it back up in a bucket and because she had no more drink nor money....


she redrank it

Now that is dedication

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I once met a woman who told me she downed a half bottle of Vodka in like 10 mins as she was choking for a drink - she then spewed a lot of it back up in a bucket and because she had no more drink nor money....


she redrank it

Now that is dedication

what happened to the other half of the bottle?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what happened to the other half of the bottle?

In the UK you can buy a half bottle, its half the size of a full one!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

In the UK you can buy a half bottle, its half the size of a full one!

OIC, that's just what that size of bottle is called. i get it now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

addiction has nothing to do with a particular addictive substance. someone with the disease of addiction will be an addict even if they grew up on an island with no drugs. addiction is a mental disorder like anorexia. (actually anorexia is considered to be on the addiction spectrum)

It's a personality disorder. physical addiction to chemicals is just a possible symptom of the mental disorder.

Addiction is more like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder if you had to compare it to anything. and many Addicts also suffer from OCD like tendencies too.

alcohol for an addict is like a medication. alcohol is not the problem, addiction is the problem, alcohol is the solution to the problem.

addiction makes you feel like you are helpless, desperate, paranoid, anxious, and addicts seek out ways to stop those feelings, like alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex, food, danger, risks, anything that will cause our brains to be stimulated and distract us from the horrible feelings underneath.

but there is no cure for the horrible feelings underneath, just self-medication. just whatever we can do to try to not feel the horrible feelings of addiction.

that is addiction.

You may be right, could be why it has patters in families, or it could be a learned coping mechanism who knows?
I would've said anorexia is more control than addiction and there's no physical dependency it's all mental I'd say.
Having had an addiction for one thing doesn't for me predispose you to every other addiction, it's not my experience anyway.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It runs in families the way a personality runs, I would say its not the alcoholism that runs but the personality and upbringing that lends itsself to using alcohol

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and how would you decide on "need"

Like I said in that other thread.... When my husband asked me if I was prepared to walk a mile in the rain to get my nightly wine fix (one glass), that makes me potentially wine dependant.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Like I said in that other thread.... When my husband asked me if I was prepared to walk a mile in the rain to get my nightly wine fix (one glass), that makes me potentially wine dependant.

When you knock over a glass and your first instinct is to suck it out of the carpet talk to me....
Only joking, if it was becoming an issue then yes it's time to take action it's great that you were able to break the routine and avoid further dependency.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You may be right, could be why it has patters in families, or it could be a learned coping mechanism who knows?
I would've said anorexia is more control than addiction and there's no physical dependency it's all mental I'd say.
Having had an addiction for one thing doesn't for me predispose you to every other addiction, it's not my experience anyway.

anorexics are not in control, if they were in control they would be able to maintain a perfect body weight, but they can't, they take it to the extreme. and most anorexics have binge eating disorder. people think anorexics just don't eat, but that is not true. The vast majority of anorexics are actually binge eaters, and they starve themselves trying to stop the binge eating. Just like a binge alcoholic that drinks 2 bottles of vodka on the weekend, looses control, and then promises to never drink again and doesn't drink for 2 weeks, only to repeat the process again.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It runs in families the way a personality runs, I would say its not the alcoholism that runs but the personality and upbringing that lends itsself to using alcohol

everyone in my family has vastly different personalities, so that doesn't make much sense. but you are right that the diseases of addiction is genetic and therefore runs in families.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by lostalex

anorexics are not in control, if they were in control they would be able to maintain a perfect body weight, but they can't, they take it to the extreme. and most anorexics have binge eating disorder. people think anorexics just don't eat, but that is not true. The vast majority of anorexics are actually binge eaters, and they starve themselves trying to stop the binge eating.

People who have bulimia or anorexia are people who feel in control of their eating. Its often brought on by trauma/abuse that was out of their control.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

anorexics are not in control, if they were in control they would be able to maintain a perfect body weight, but they can't, they take it to the extreme. and most anorexics have binge eating disorder. people think anorexics just don't eat, but that is not true. The vast majority of anorexics are actually binge eaters, and they starve themselves trying to stop the binge eating. Just like a binge alcoholic that drinks 2 bottles of vodka on the weekend, looses control, and then promises to never drink again and doesn't drink for 2 weeks, only to repeat the process again.

I didn't say they were in control I said it was about control.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

People who have bulimia or anorexia are people who feel in control of their eating. Its often brought on by trauma/abuse that was out of their control.

i'm a bulimic and have spent plenty of time in recovery programs. I've never met a fellow bulimic or anorexic who would say that they felt they were in control. They would all say they were completely out of control. every single one of us always felt out of control suffering with this disease. Like all diseases it's about trying to get control. but you never have control. ever. moderation is an impossible goal, we even try to control moderation to the extreme.