[Jamie89]

Yes but gender identity isn't something thats assigned by chomosones so it comes down to how you chose to define man and woman I suppose

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

Yes but gender identity isn't something thats assigned by chomosones so it comes down to how you chose to define man and woman I suppose

Well, the fact is that no person born biologically a woman has the Y chromosome. Transgender women do. That's the scientific fact. But like I say, that doesn't mean that if someone feels they are "in the wrong body" they should be denied that chance to live as they choose.

I'm not sure what Greer is thinking. Maybe like lostalex says she just being vicious, or maybe there's another agenda. I don't have much time for her in any case.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, the fact is that no person born biologically a woman has the Y chromosome. Transgender women do. That's the scientific fact. But like I say, that doesn't mean that if someone feels they are "in the wrong body" they should be denied that chance to live as they choose.

I'm not sure what Greer is thinking. Maybe like lostalex says she just being vicious, or maybe there's another agenda. I don't have much time for her in any case.

She's a TWERP or whatever it is Josh said. These people who define themselves with acronyms or other such labels tend to follow a set of arbitrary "rules" that half of the time they don't have any real, well thought out, valid reasoning for. They are people who "choose" their pre-defined philosophies from a selection (usually online these days) and then "follow the rules" for the one they've chosen. This woman is a TARD so she believes that only women who are born women are women, because that's what everyone else with her prescribed belief system says.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

Well it's a good point, and honestly I don't know which is why it doesn't bother me necessarily if people have germaines views because at least it raises a debate, my main issue here is just that its a supposed feminist expressing what I feel are very misoginistic views. I suppose your question raises another which is, how should a woman think/act? Is it how we expect them to based on archaic stereotyping or is it however feels natural to them? I do have a close friend who is a female to male transexual and I had no idea until he told me, but how important should that be anyway compared to how he feels inside? I think these are the things that germaine is overlooking in favour of a more superficial and narrow minded approach to gender identity

It's the censorship I object to, as an academic an intellectual an author and a Woman why is she denied voicing an opinion?
socialisation is not archaic stereotyping when it suits, nor is it misogyny to counter any discussion with debate on the issue.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

Yes but gender identity isn't something thats assigned by chomosones so it comes down to how you chose to define man and woman I suppose

I don't see this as being as simple as genetics, the crux is that truly to identify as female there has to have been that transition from girl to woman as opposed to man to woman?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by lostalex

all little girls have a unique child hood experience. a trans girls also have a unique experience as a girl.

there is no definitive "girl" experience.

I agree here.All kids have their own unique experiences as children.No matter their gender.I'd say gender only comes into the equation as they get older.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I agree here.All kids have their own unique experiences as children.No matter their gender.I'd say gender only comes into the equation as they get older.

You don't think boys and girls are treated differently at all, and boys and girls don't interact with each other differently?
I think that's primarily what helps shape gender identity and prepares men to be men and women to be women.
That's not to say that men can't be women or visa versa, however expecting trans people to have the life experience as the opposite sex is impossible as it just didn't happen.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

No transgender woman has the XX chromosome so clinically, as they still have only XY chromosomes and not XX chromosomes they are not biologically women. That doesn't mean to say that if they have a need to live their lives as a women they shouldn't do that.

I agree with this also obviously^

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You don't think boys and girls are treated differently at all, and boys and girls don't interact with each other differently?
I think that's primarily what helps shape gender identity and prepares men to be men and women to be women.
That's not to say that men can't be women or visa versa, however expecting trans people to have the life experience as the opposite sex is impossible as it just didn't happen.

But one boy can have a totally different experience to another and the same with girls.I don't think gender plays a huge role until later on.I mean kids are kids.They might play with different toys or whatever but it's not a major thing.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what you say is factually true.

i don't think trans women need to be reminded though, and i think it's clear that Germaine Greer is just being a nasty **** by thinking she needs to REMIND trans women of that fact. It's clear she takes some kind of sick discriminatory pleasure in saying it.

But then i agree with this too.Germaine Greer's just a nasty opinionated twat tbqh.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

But then i agree with this too.Germaine Greer's just a nasty opinionated twat tbqh.

What a gender specific derogatory term to level at someone for having an opinion.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

But one boy can have a totally different experience to another and the same with girls.I don't think gender plays a huge role until later on.I mean kids are kids.They might play with different toys or whatever but it's not a major thing.

Primary and secondary socialisation most certainly is a major thing, it's what shapes our thinking.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What a gender specific derogatory term to level at someone for having an opinion.

I don't discriminate,I call blokes twats too and pricks

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I don't discriminate,I call blokes twats too and pricks

Exactly, men can be twats and women can most certainly be dicks.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's the censorship I object to, as an academic an intellectual an author and a Woman why is she denied voicing an opinion?
socialisation is not archaic stereotyping when it suits, nor is it misogyny to counter any discussion with debate on the issue.

She's not denied an opinion she's entitled to it, as are those who disagree with her. I haven't said she should be censored. My point is that what she's saying sounds misoginistic because of her implying that women should act a certain way, which surely goes against feminism?

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, the fact is that no person born biologically a woman has the Y chromosome. Transgender women do. That's the scientific fact. But like I say, that doesn't mean that if someone feels they are "in the wrong body" they should be denied that chance to live as they choose.

I'm not sure what Greer is thinking. Maybe like lostalex says she just being vicious, or maybe there's another agenda. I don't have much time for her in any case.

Yeah I agree with the factual-ness (not a word) of that and I'm not a biology expert or anything but the way I view it, is that our chromosomes are only a part of what form us physically and so are only really relevant as a focal point when looking at how we are going to be formed, rather than using them retroactively as a definition of who we currently are(I'm not saying that's what you're doing I'm just speaking generally on the issue of chromosones being brought into things), when everything including psychology is taken into consideration. So having a particular chromosone might mean we develop a penis at the beginning but if at a later stage we decide to change that surgically due to psychological reasons then it becomes something that is irrelevant in determining who we are. They're kind of the building blocks but we're so complex that we're able to say, ok, my body formed in that way for that particular reason, but this is who I actually am. And so it just comes down to whether a person should be judged gender wise based on how they were initially formed, or its based on everything taken into consideration and more importantly imo, who they judge themselves to be. And although science can be used as a way of determining someones biological sex, it can't be used to determine someone's gender because it's not a physical thing that can be seen. If any of that makes sense lol

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

She's not denied an opinion she's entitled to it, as are those who disagree with her. I haven't said she should be censored. My point is that what she's saying sounds misoginistic because of her implying that women should act a certain way, which surely goes against feminism?

Yet the vid is about her being restricted from speaking on the subject somewhere.
She isn't implying anything, feminism is a female issue.
It's not misogynistic to suggest becoming a woman does not make you privvy to all that being a female entails, it doesn't it's a lifelong learning curve.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yeah. This is why so many radical feminists tend to not be feminists at all, they just hate men. (and even women born as men)

spot on, shes evil pure and simple a spiteful bigot her motivation is all based on male hate....she was on question time a few years ago and said all fathers were perverts and teach their daughters how to seduce men etc etc sick....watch this crap its hard to believe....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjVDYPAuRh0

and to think she was the biggest voice behind the so called feminism rise in the 1960s and 70s....her revisionary history is very dangerous and is used to brainwash young children especially young girls who are taught to hate men. I know several young girls taught feminism all with A grades in all their exams who have NEVER heard of Lloyd George, the man who fought tooth and nail to get women the vote and working class men the vote and who taxed the rich first and created the welfare state national insurance contributions which later formed the nhs. how can feminists not even teach kids about Lloyd George? because hes a man?

[the truth]

its generalized drivel about an entire group of people. she can say what she likes, ultimately shes driven by hate

[DemolitionRed]

I'm all for freedom of speech but if Greer is allowed to voice her view on tg's from a podium, that talk needs to be balanced by someone else with an opposing view.

My question to her would be, "what's your opinion on hermaphrodites? I bet that would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm all for freedom of speech but if Greer is allowed to voice her view on tg's from a podium, that talk needs to be balanced by someone else with an opposing view.

My question to her would be, "what's your opinion on hermaphrodites? I bet that would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

Honestly there is nowhere near as much divide between the genders as people make out - the only difference really would be masculinity and feminity - which are both caused by social influence.

[Scarlett.]

Germaine Greer is such a Harry Potter name, you can just picture her as some crazy old witch cackling away in a shack surrounded by cats.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm all for freedom of speech but if Greer is allowed to voice her view on tg's from a podium, that talk needs to be balanced by someone else with an opposing view.

My question to her would be, "what's your opinion on hermaphrodites? I bet that would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

Then have it balanced don't just deny her the right to speak.

The issue is on transgender specifically male to female, I happen to agree with her when she suggests it is rather a patriarchal to give 'woman of the year' to someone that up until 4 months ago was a man.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Germaine Greer is such a Harry Potter name, you can just picture her as some crazy old witch cackling away in a shack surrounded by cats.

Is this the gamers opinion?

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is this the gamers opinion?

No, it's my opinion on a bitter old woman who likes to make big statements to the press about vunerable members of society, just so she can stay important.