[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am afraid that the message from certain posts on here is perfectly clear; that that NO yob behaviour or name calling or violence is wrong if it is carried out by Left Wingers and other subversives, against people they deem to be Right Wing.

I haven't seen anyone advocating violence, there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning.
Their grievance is with this policy and the minister currently under investigation only.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I haven't seen anyone advocating violence, there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning.
Their grievance is with this policy and the minister currently under investigation only.

My cousin actually voted UKIP, only because of the belief that was the best assured way to get an EU referendum.
However the intense dislike for IDS and the policies of this govt towards the sick,disabled and most vulnerable provoked another strong emotion.

Hardly left wing at all but some will still generalise and indeed insult too.Without having full relevant information too Kizzy.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I haven't seen anyone advocating violence, there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning.
Their grievance is with this policy and the minister currently under investigation only.

This thread was NOT about IDS's policy or any wrongdoing he may be guilty of. It was SPECIFICALLY about the 'warm reception' which he received in Peckham - to quote your own words - so all the copy-pasta in the world on anything else is irrelevant.

Violence does not have to be 'physical' - it can be implied, harrassment, vocal threat, intimidation, and a host of other forms, and my posts, AND others, dealt specifically with the those UNLAWFUL aspects of the said 'warm reception', but this is something which you and others have denied or lessened, or mitigated, or deflected. This may not strictly be DIRECTLY 'advocating' such violence, but it is condoning it nonetheless.

As for: "there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning."
This too is totally irrelevant, because I said - "Left Wingers and other subversives" and 'subversives' is the key word, because breaking the laws of this country to try to impose your will IN THE FACE OF DEMOCRATIC opportunity, is subversive.

As stated many times previously, any grievance which citizens of this country has with any government minister or his policies, can be addressed via the ballot box or by PEACEFUL ORDERLY time-honoured protest - NOT by UNLAWFUL mob rule and violence.

You REALLY have NO argument with which to counter the TRUTH of what I and others are stating here, but - as usual - you will all ignore that truth and argue anyway.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This thread was NOT about IDS's policy or any wrongdoing he may be guilty of. It was SPECIFICALLY about the 'warm reception' which he received in Peckham - to quote your own words - so all the copy-pasta in the world on anything else is irrelevant.

Violence does not have to be 'physical' - it can be implied, harrassment, vocal threat, intimidation, and a host of other forms, and my posts, AND others, dealt specifically with the those UNLAWFUL aspects of the said 'warm reception', but this is something which you and others have denied or lessened, or mitigated, or deflected. This may not strictly be DIRECTLY 'advocating' such violence, but it is condoning it nonetheless.

As for: "there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning."
This too is totally irrelevant, because I said - "Left Wingers and other subversives" and 'subversives' is the key word, because breaking the laws of this country to try to impose your will IN THE FACE OF DEMOCRATIC opportunity, is subversive.

As stated many times previously, any grievance which citizens of this country has with any government minister or his policies, can be addressed via the ballot box or by PEACEFUL ORDERLY time-honoured protest - NOT by UNLAWFUL mob rule and violence.

You REALLY have NO argument with which to counter the TRUTH of what I and others are stating here, but - as usual - you will all ignore that truth and argue anyway.

'Warm reception' is how it was reported in the news item I offered for discussion, and the 'copy pasta' appropriate and relevant recent news items associated with this particular minister.

Things have to be found to be unlawful, shouting isn't unlawful. He was able to come and go without incident.

We have freedom of speech laws, if it is undemocratic to voice your opinion to a minister why have these if to act on them renders you labelled 'subversive'?
As validated at least one protester can be shown to not be traditionally left wing, maybe then accusations of left wing bias at the protest is supposition?

The truth is there was no violence, none.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'Warm reception' is how it was reported in the news item I offered for discussion, and the 'copy pasta' appropriate and relevant recent news items associated with this particular minister.

Things have to be found to be unlawful, shouting isn't unlawful. He was able to come and go without incident.

We have freedom of speech laws, if it is undemocratic to voice your opinion to a minister why have these if to act on them renders you labelled 'subversive'?
As validated at least one protester can be shown to not be traditionally left wing, maybe then accusations of left wing bias at the protest is supposition?

The truth is there was no violence, none.

Kizzy, it is because of his policies he is so hated by people who cannot get fairness and compassion from him.
This thread is and should be about everything as to his policies, it is his policies that make him the individual he is as to Politics.
As in the post that Dezzy made earlier.
It is also why he gets the attacks he does too.

There was no violence,they were not inbred morons and you are right 100% in my view.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Kizzy, it is because of his policies he is so hated by people who cannot get fairness and compassion from him.
This thread is and should be about everything as to his policies, it is his policies that make him the individual he is as to Politics.
As in the post that Dezzy made earlier.
It is also why he gets the attacks he does too.

There was no violence,they were not inbred morons and you are right 100% in my view.

Thanks for that Joey I of course agree, his policies are some of the most dangerous in modern politics. Nobody who has had direct or indirect experience via family and friend could justify what they have done to the most vulnerable in our society.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thanks for that Joey I of course agree, his policies are some of the most dangerous in modern politics. Nobody who has had direct or indirect experience via family and friend could justify what they have done to the most vulnerable in our society.

I think off the top of my head I have assisted,either in going along to an assessment for ESA or helping fill in the form for it for somewhere around 90+ people now.
At the assessments,I witnessed only 15 where things went smoothly and where the person was treated with respect.

In my job in Law, I have assisted with cases for appeals of loss of benefits or benefits being cut,too many times to mention now, each one I have heard of and actually seen go to Court in the end as the last resort,( after the DWP waste time supposedly looking at it again but not even getting in touch with Doctors, Consultants or carers), I have yet to come across a single one where the appeal was not upheld either in full or in part.

Of course some run smoothly,and all goes well but I have found that to be the minority more likely than the norm.
Such as today,Frank Field who this govt and IDS like to commend for his welfare plans and work in the past and his ideas too for the future at times.
He has pointed out that sanctions are being made on a scale never before seen and there are people dropping out the welfare system with no record of what is happening to them no protection and probably falling into destitution.

What is IDS and the DWP response to that, 'there is no basis to the claims'.
Dismissed instantly without even looking at it.

Well done for anyone who gets their ESA sorted quickly and without hassle, the last one I just helped with for someone they were left waiting 13 weeks to get the decision.
The sad thing is for those who it all goes smoothly for,that should be the norm for everyone across all justified benefit claims and sadly its not the case at all, and its getting worse.
Even now moreso with the planned stopping of financial assistance by this govt. for those who are left at the end with no choice but to fight their case in Court.
Thereby removing under the greedy guise of austerity,rights to justice for benefit claimants.