[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The media have decided that the image of a dead child being washed up on a shore is only good for treating refugees like humans for a few months but nothing more than that. We're back to the ol' 'Refugees are scrounging scum that are barely human' viewpoint now and so most of the mainstream media will only present images that reinforce that view. They'll focus on imagery of young men because it's easier for people like you to distrust them.

Wrong Dezzy
Ch4HD News Live in Europe
has shown more are Men.
Even BBCNews has shown the same

Its not being made up at all.


Yes there are some mothers and children
but not like the Young Men totals.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..and sadly people feel they know and can judge what peope do and don't read and whether they 'bother' to do something or not...people read the same information and take different things from that information and what one person takes is just as valid as something another person takes...and the 'swallowing' of propaganda is not specific to a section of people either...in this thread and many of these threads, opinions are given with reasons and reasoning, whether agreed with or not...they're not just thrown out there for the heck of it and come from equal intelligence and equal information, which have helped form their own views etc...this for me personally is a complicated topic and one which I would want to give some thought to and not have any 'knee-jerk' rections because this might not be by any means, an ideal thing but at least it's trying to aim for a 'fair soloution'/what the Danish Government feel to be fair and something, I feel to be considered and not just immediately dismissed....what's sad is that these things can't be discussed and opinions and thoughts shared without so much personal jufgement.../it really, really just kills debate, rather than encourage it....the topic itself/news story is interesting enough, there's no need to comment on anything other than it...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's not about 'immigrant bashing' as you call it or 'perceived reactions' because nothing was allowed for in 'there's only a few people on here who will bother to read that.'....that's an assumption and a presumption that is not for you or anyone else to make because you don't know what anyone reads or what anyone doesn't read and it's a very condescending and quite 'superior' remark..it's also quite attacking, there was no waiting to see any reading or any comments after that reading, if any were made..?...all there was, was a condescending and judgemental 'there are only a few people on here who will bother to read', which is also very ironic, given the topic...all these things do/these remarks is to detract from what's being discussed..they not only don't add anything but they so often start a path of what has sadly so often become a series of personal comments of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth over the last while, to the point that not only does the topic become lost in it all, but it truly does make it difficult for others to join a thread or have any inclination to do so, because of personal agendas and the silliness of it all....you didn't 'scrutinize' anything because you didn't allow for anything to be scrutinized, you made an offensive pre-judgement that 'people wouldn't bother' and you aimed it specifically at posters in the thread..I'm sure that you'll agree that, that won't encourage debate but lead to 'defensiveness' which will only take off track and starts to kill all debate....a real basic 'no, no' in debate, you could say....and also not in any way, judging or opposing someone's views but judging them personally and in my opinion, in quite a 'superior' way....

..anyways, other than the topic itself, if I join the discussion..this will be the last post/response etc I make because this again, is only detracting from the debate....I love the debate section, I love the discussions and I think it's sad and a shame that so many threads/so many debates are marred/detracted from, because of unnecessary personal judgements...'will bother to read' is not judging an opinion, it's judging a person or people, before they've even had an opportunity to read or comment if they choose to do so.. and not only unnecessary but also without any foundation...

It's an opinion Ammi, nobody is condescending, attacking, judging, being superior or offensive to anyone.
I have posted reams of information that hasn't been looked at over time on these threads she's right if some have their blinkers on what can you do?... It's not a crime to acknowledge that can happen.

[Livia]

All I have to say about this is to liken it to what the Nazis did to the Jews, however loosely, is unbelievable.

It's Holocaust Remembrance Day today. There is plenty of information and programmes on the subject, maybe it'd do some people good to watch a little of it so you can put to rest once and for all that anything that is happening to refugees in Europe right now in any way equates to the Holocaust.

[Scarlett.]

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's not about 'immigrant bashing' as you call it or 'perceived reactions' because nothing was allowed for in 'there's only a few people on here who will bother to read that.'....that's an assumption and a presumption that is not for you or anyone else to make because you don't know what anyone reads or what anyone doesn't read and it's a very condescending and quite 'superior' remark..it's also quite attacking, there was no waiting to see any reading or any comments after that reading, if any were made..?...all there was, was a condescending and judgemental 'there are only a few people on here who will bother to read', which is also very ironic, given the topic...all these things do/these remarks is to detract from what's being discussed..they not only don't add anything but they so often start a path of what has sadly so often become a series of personal comments of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth over the last while, to the point that not only does the topic become lost in it all, but it truly does make it difficult for others to join a thread or have any inclination to do so, because of personal agendas and the silliness of it all....you didn't 'scrutinize' anything because you didn't allow for anything to be scrutinized, you made an offensive pre-judgement that 'people wouldn't bother' and you aimed it specifically at posters in the thread..I'm sure that you'll agree that, that won't encourage debate but lead to 'defensiveness' which will only take off track and starts to kill all debate....a real basic 'no, no' in debate, you could say....and also not in any way, judging or opposing someone's views but judging them personally and in my opinion, in quite a 'superior' way....

..anyways, other than the topic itself, if I join the discussion..this will be the last post/response etc I make because this again, is only detracting from the debate....I love the debate section, I love the discussions and I think it's sad and a shame that so many threads/so many debates are marred/detracted from, because of unnecessary personal judgements...'will bother to read' is not judging an opinion, it's judging a person or people, before they've even had an opportunity to read or comment if they choose to do so.. and not only unnecessary but also without any foundation...

I agree Ammi. Totally and unreservedly.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Chewy

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

Fair point Chewy, the drip drip dehumanisation is reminiscent I'd say and Cameron isn't even attempting to disguise his part in it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Fair point Chewy, the drip drip dehumanisation is reminiscent I'd say and Cameron isn't even attempting to disguise his part in it.

Oh I think he's openly encouraging it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Fair point Chewy, the drip drip dehumanisation is reminiscent I'd say and Cameron isn't even attempting to disguise his part in it.

It is not reminiscent in any way, and if you think it is, there's a big gap in your knowledge.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

It is not reminiscent in any way, and if you think it is, there's a big gap in your knowledge.

I happen to believe it is Livia, I've taken what comments have been stated by the PM and other individuals as well as in the mainstream media. I don't expect you to agree, it is however my opinion.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I happen to believe it is Livia, I've taken what comments have been stated by the PM and other individuals as well as in the mainstream media. I don't expect you to agree, it is however my opinion.

So you're likening not only the plight of the refugees in Europe now to the plight of the Jews in the 30s, you're also likening Cameron to Hitler? Okay then... it's not like I didn't expect you to take this stance. It's pointless discussing this with you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

So you're likening not only the plight of the refugees in Europe now to the plight of the Jews in the 30s, you're also likening Cameron to Hitler? Okay then... it's not like I didn't expect you to take this stance. It's pointless discussing this with you.

Am I?... I'm not of course and I think it's rather offensive of you suggest that, nowhere have I likened Cameron to Hitler.
You have judged that incorrectly, if you disagree then fine but there's no need to attack my view. I am entitled to feel as I do and your condescension does nothing to deter me from my stance.

[Scarlett.]

People arent literally calling modern politicians Hitler. All we are worried about is repeating this same mistakes that Germany did in the past. Normal everyday people in Germany supported what happened in World War II, good people, we have to accept that not all of Germany were not cartoon villians, they were a nation who were manipulated and trained by their government into dehumanising others.

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Chewy

People arent literally calling modern politicians Hitler. All we are worried about is repeating this same mistakes that Germany did in the past. Normal everyday people in Germany supported what happened in World War II, good people, we have to accept that not all of Germany were not cartoon villians, they were a nation who were manipulated and trained by their government into dehumanising others.

Youtube video

Totally, you can argue with the left and you can argue with me, but you can't argue with Stephen Fry!

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Chewy

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

That's because most people don't realize we've been here before.

Surely this country gave a warm welcome in the past to refugees - such as those escaping the Nazis? Not so. Anne Karpf finds unpleasant parallels, then and now, and discovers how it feels to be the target of such hostility.

There's a doleful little game that staff at the Refugee Council sometimes play. They show visitors press cuttings about refugees and asylum seekers from the 1900s, 1930s and today, and ask them to guess when they were published. Most people get it wrong. They assume that Jewish refugees were welcomed, at least in the 1930s, with a tolerance that has traditionally been seen as a beacon of Britishness. They're shocked to discover that rabid intolerance - among both press and government - has a strong British pedigree.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/j...publicservices

[Kizzy]

I don't doubt that for a second, then as now there were those fighting for humanitarianism and those against.
I would say it was however a British trait too to want to help, who can be as vocal as the 'I'm alright Jack' nay sayers.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Chewy

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

I have read all the posts on this thread on this and can see where most are coming from,I don't think to be fair to Josh he was making a like for like comparison with what happened in Nazi Germany at all and he is being unfairly pulled up as to that.

I think you have expressed very concisely and in really good wording what I can more easily go along with.

I think any State has the right in a just and fair way to expect anyone going into their Nation to fully or in part support themselves when there.
However to take by force possessions of others,lies very uneasily with me.
So I would on balance be against the Danish decision.

They would be quite right to withhold any benefits/assistance from the State if any were coming in really rich but to take possessions,maybe they have had for decades because they are of value, should in my view count as robbery.
Nothing wrong in ascertaining what assets those coming into the Nation have but to forcibly take any possessions from them,no,that seems very extreme to me.

So very well said Chewy and it is sad they are seen as less than Human,it is more than sad, it is disgraceful in fact,in my view.