[Marsh.]

It wasn't an argument. It was a point as I find the possibility of a correlation interesting. At no point was I trying to disprove or prove LT's initial point. It was an observation.

But by all means continue reading something that is not there. You clearly know my own thoughts better than I do.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

tl;dr - Using your own, personal, anecdotal experiences of a few examples as a counter-argument to a statement made about groups of people in general, is generalising. It can't possibly, in any way or under any circumstances, be described as anything else.

It wasn't a counter-argument. It was an observation off the back of LT posing the correlation as a question.

[Crimson Dynamo]

so *wanders into thread*

what did i miss?

*looks at last few pages*

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

so *wanders into thread*

what did i miss?

*looks at last few pages*

Go piss in a river LT it's all your fault,you heathen you

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

so *wanders into thread*

what did i miss?

Oh you know.

We've moved on from deities to mind reading.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Go piss in a river LT it's all your fault,you heathen you

I have faith that the thread will be turned around and people will get on again

Spoiler:

[user104658]

Yes apparently we're not allowed to infer meaning from the words people use anymore unless they state them categorically in five words or fewer. It's regarded as some sort of mystical joobajoo mind reading whatsit nonsense, and you can be burned at the stake for it, in the name of Jesus or Bob from the Council Scheme or some other character from this thread. I can't remember. Iron Man or something. Maybe all three, like raptors.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I have faith that the thread will be turned around and people will get on again

Spoiler:

To be fair, I think everyone that ever "got on" is still getting on. As far as I can tell, anyway. Don't worry LT. Everything is as it always was. Shh... shhhh...

[Marsh.]

Yeah, god forbid people correct you when you misinterpret their words.

[Marsh.]

Oops, I said god.

Apologies for pushing my religion on you.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, god forbid people correct you when you misinterpret their words.

I didn't misinterpret them, though. I thought we had covered that quite comprehensively, but apparently not. But I can't be bothered playing groundhog day .

[AnnieK]

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

what post number did that occur?

[Ammi]

... Marsh said that the correlation between religion and education was interesting one because it's something that has been discussed in the thread/an existing part of the topic..and he stated his own personal experiences of people he had known, growing up who had 'laughed' or scoffed at religion...there was no generalisations, only personal experiences and no matter how that's been interpreted, it doesn't change what was actually said which was no generalisation at all...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

That hasn't happened. Both have been mentioned as reasons that some people are religious - alongside others. Some of which specifically point out that there are intelligent, well educated people who are still religious. There hasn't been one post that states the sort of "either/or" situation that you're suggesting. Making this accusation misleading and needlessly inflamatory

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

... Marsh said that the correlation between religion and education was interesting one because it's something that has been discussed in the thread/an existing part of the topic..and he stated his own personal experiences of people he had known, growing up who had 'laughed' or scoffed at religion...there was no generalisations, only personal experiences and no matter how that's been interpreted, it doesn't change what was actually said which was no generalisation at all...

It was implied that those observations of those individuals either suggested that LT's proposed correlation between education level and religiosity was incorrect (i.e. that his observations proved that such people were in fact not religious) which would be a generalisation.

The other possibility, I suppose, was that he incorrectly believed LT to be saying that ALL uneducated people are religious, and that his observations of uneducated, non-religious people then disproved that... which wouldn't be a generalisation, simply incorrect, because LT at no point said that all uneducated people are religious.

I stand by my initial assessment, though. LT proposed the correlation, Marsh said (to paraphrase) "Hmm that's strange, because I know a few such people and they aren't religious, so that would suggest such a correlation is not true". Generalisation based on personal anecdote.

Then kazanne said "Yarrrr they're all filthy godless feral scumbags (with hearts of gold)".

That's my exact memory of this thread.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So then.....

Where is heaven?

It's definately not in the clouds.Or just above them.So it has to be in space somewhere.Is it another planet?
Or is it outside the universe/s.
If the universe is infinite or if there are an infinite number of universes then it has to be in it/one of them.Maybe it's in the centre of a galaxy or in a black hole.

Where is it?

...plug your headphones in NM and you've found it......

Youtube video

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It was implied that those observations of those individuals either suggested that LT's proposed correlation between education level and religiosity was incorrect (i.e. that his observations proved that such people were in fact not religious) which would be a generalisation.

The other possibility, I suppose, was that he incorrectly believed LT to be saying that ALL uneducated people are religious, and that his observations of uneducated, non-religious people then disproved that... which wouldn't be a generalisation, simply incorrect, because LT at no point said that all uneducated people are religious.

I stand by my initial assessment, though. LT proposed the correlation, Marsh said (to paraphrase) "Hmm that's strange, because I know a few such people and they aren't religious, so that would suggest such a correlation is not true". Generalisation based on personal anecdote.

Then kazanne said "Yarrrr they're all filthy godless feral scumbags (with hearts of gold)".

That's my exact memory of this thread.

..that's cool TS but it still doesn't change what was said, only that you're standing by your interpretations...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It was implied that those observations of those individuals either suggested that LT's proposed correlation between education level and religiosity was incorrect (i.e. that his observations proved that such people were in fact not religious) which would be a generalisation.

The other possibility, I suppose, was that he incorrectly believed LT to be saying that ALL uneducated people are religious, and that his observations of uneducated, non-religious people then disproved that... which wouldn't be a generalisation, simply incorrect, because LT at no point said that all uneducated people are religious.

Neither. I found LT's addition to the thread to be interesting so threw an example into the mix as another part of that debate to be of interest.

There was no attempt from me to prove anything either way, nor an attempt to accuse LT of generalising.

[user104658]

I feel like I should also point out, as )confusingly) I haven't until this point, I have absolutely zero problem with generalisations themselves or with people making generalisations. Sometimes they're handy, and accurate enough to convey a point.

I only have a problem with people taking that stance, and then clambering over themselves to claim that they haven't.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I stand by my initial assessment, though. LT proposed the correlation, Marsh said (to paraphrase) "Hmm that's strange, because I know a few such people and they aren't religious, so that would suggest such a correlation is not true". Generalisation based on personal anecdote.

Then that would be incorrect.

I never said it suggested anything either way about the correlation. I said it was an interesting point for LT to raise, he'd mentioned it one way and I provided an example from my experiences of the other way as I find it interesting. I was taking either side of the debate, merely discussing it.

Funny how LT himself didn't take issue with my post as saying he was wrong or anything. Because I didn't.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Then kazanne said "Yarrrr they're all filthy godless feral scumbags (with hearts of gold)".

That's my exact memory of this thread.

Kazanne's post, which has nothing to do with anything posted by me or agreed with by me.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I feel like I should also point out, as )confusingly) I haven't until this point, I have absolutely zero problem with generalisations themselves or with people making generalisations. Sometimes they're handy, and accurate enough to convey a point.

I only have a problem with people taking that stance, and then clambering over themselves to claim that they haven't.

..or never having made it in the first place......(which was my interpretation ..)...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

... Marsh said that the correlation between religion and education was interesting one because it's something that has been discussed in the thread/an existing part of the topic..and he stated his own personal experiences of people he had known, growing up who had 'laughed' or scoffed at religion...there was no generalisations, only personal experiences and no matter how that's been interpreted, it doesn't change what was actually said which was no generalisation at all...

This, this and this.

I'm glad someone has come into the thread, followed the flow of discussion and actually understood what was said.

Thank you.