[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by parmnion

all those junior doctors out on the streets protesting should have taken the opportunity of a day in bed if they are so exhausted.

They are exhausted and if those who can only criticise them bothered to go and talk to any of them you would clearly see that close up.
They do not want to be doing this but they were out supporting their colleagues while their bosses, the Consultants who support them totally, were covering all emergency care needs.

A great number of those Doctors out there for part of today were also going into work tonight until 8am tomorrow morning too.

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=the truth;8630164]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

lol as usual youve ignored all of my points..I on the other hand accept there are massive faults on all sides here...but when you ignore all other points on all other sides, your own opinion becomes irrelevant

I didn't ignore your points, I stuck to the topic of this particular thread and wasn't going to take it off topic.

This thread is about the new govt contract for Junior Doctors and them striking against it which only applies to England.

This contract and strike has nothing at all to do with the NHS in Wales, there is no issue of this contract there..
So as to your long points as to the NHS in Wales,they are irrelevant in fact on this thread.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;8630185]

Originally Posted by the truth

I didn't ignore your points, I stuck to the topic of this particular thread and wasn't going to take it off topic.

This thread is about the new govt contract for Junior Doctors and them striking against it which only applies to England.

This contract and strike has nothing at all to do with the NHS in Wales, there is no issue of this contract there..
So as to your long points as to the NHS in Wales,they are irrelevant in fact on this thread.

No they are 100% relevant. The nhs wales is run by labour and it is on the old contract. the weekend coverage is sub standard, you cannot get scanned on weekends. the waiting times are simply horrific. nhs england is light years ahead because the tories are running the nhs better. they also have a smarter system where you can book any hospital in england which is why the queues are so much shorter than wales who have an absurd system of queuing a patient just for 1 hospital. the fact LABOUR allowed 90% of gp's to opt out of all out of ours working is a massive part of this problem. that contract has to be overthrown

I have written all this you have already ignored it all, it is 100% relevant and the fact you ignore is frankly deeply disturbing

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They are exhausted and if those who can only criticise them bothered to go and talk to any of them you would clearly see that close up.
They do not want to be doing this but they were out supporting their colleagues while their bosses, the Consultants who support them totally, were covering all emergency care needs.

A great number of those Doctors out there for part of today were also going into work tonight until 8am tomorrow morning too.

theyre exhausted because theyre on 91 hours in some cases but under the new contract it would be a maximum of 72 hours

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

theyre exhausted because theyre on 91 hours in some cases but under the new contract it would be a maximum of 72 hours

You have sadly misunderstood the contract and taken all Hunts words as to it, go and talk to the Junior Doctors if you pass them on strike,
They will gladly explain their true grievances as to it in full with you and detail it way far better than I can as a more confusing contract I doubt I will ever come across again, hopefully not anyway..

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=the truth;8630189]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

No they are 100% relevant. The nhs wales is run by labour and it is on the old contract. the weekend coverage is sub standard, you cannot get scanned on weekends. the waiting times are simply horrific. nhs england is light years ahead because the tories are running the nhs better. they also have a smarter system where you can book any hospital in england which is why the queues are so much shorter than wales who have an absurd system of queuing a patient just for 1 hospital. the fact LABOUR allowed 90% of gp's to opt out of all out of ours working is a massive part of this problem. that contract has to be overthrown

I have written all this you have already ignored it all, it is 100% relevant and the fact you ignore is frankly deeply disturbing

I did not ignore it, I ignored responding to it because Wales has no new contract and no Doctors striking.
At least I don't come back to you saying you are talking nonsense like you do to me.

Anyway I am off to bed now so find someone else,for crying out loud,to nitpick at and annoy please,you are impossible almost to debate reasonably with.

[Kizzy]

How is it possible to work less hrs over 7 days with the same staff and resources?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You have sadly misunderstood the contract and taken all Hunts words as to it, go and talk to the Junior Doctors if you pass them on strike,
They will gladly explain their true grievances as to it in full with you and detail it way far better than I can as a more confusing contract I doubt I will ever come across again, hopefully not anyway..

Youve ignored all my factually correct points. I know doctors and my father was a doctor. He always worked out of hours and felt the new doctors contract signed by labour was the worst moment in the history of the medical profession. yet labour fans ignored it, why? 90% of gp's not working any out of hours? its insane and its all labours fault yet you and so many others ignore this plain truth

The majority of junior doctors arguments are mostly hysterical and absurd. they are putting it all across very poorly. The fact is public sector workers want to stop working ome compulsory weekends ...why incidentally werent any doctors striking or marching when we saw world record levels of mrsa, world record levels of abuse and cover ups within the nhs and of course thousands dying of abuse and neglect and no scans possible over weekends? why didnt the doctors nor new labour march for the patients eh? I dont trust the tories of course not, nor hunt. hes got private health shares himself and clearly wants to see more of the nhs privatised....however some parts do actually work better when run by private firms such as the nhs england booking system....the main areas where hunt has to be questioned is why he doesnt seem to be staggering all staff rotas at the same time.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

Youve ignored all my factually correct points. I know doctors and my father was a doctor. He always worked out of hours and felt the new doctors contract signed by labour was the worst moment in the history of the medical profession. yet labour fans ignored it, why? 90% of gp's not working any out of hours? its insane and its all labours fault yet you and so many others ignore this plain truth

The majority of junior doctors arguments are mostly hysterical and absurd. they are putting it all across very poorly. The fact is public sector workers want to stop working ome compulsory weekends ...why incidentally werent any doctors striking or marching when we saw world record levels of mrsa, world record levels of abuse and cover ups within the nhs and of course thousands dying of abuse and neglect and no scans possible over weekends? why didnt the doctors nor new labour march for the patients eh?

You maybe thinking of the private sector care homes here.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How is it possible to work less hrs over 7 days with the same staff and resources?

are you serious? because now only a small percentage of junior doctors actually currently work weekends under the new contract 100% will work some weekends

this contracts spreads the workload more evenly this is how rota systems work in every other sector in the world apart from the nhs

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You maybe thinking of the private sector care homes here.

abuses happen there too...no i was referring to the thousands of innocent patients in mid staffs who died of thirst ...broke my heart, did it break yours?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

are you serious? because now only a small percentage of junior doctors actually currently work weekends under the new contract 100% will work some weekends

this contracts spreads the workload more evenly this is how rota systems work in every other sector in the world apart from the nhs

So the line has changed from 'greedy drs want overtime for weekends' to 'hardly any drs work weekends'?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

abuses happen there too...no i was referring to the thousands of innocent patients in mid staffs who died of thirst ...broke my heart, did it break yours?

What has the failings (down to trust managers) to do with junior drs?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So the line has changed from 'greedy drs want overtime for weekends' to 'hardly any drs work weekends'?

I never said the former or the latter, the fact is a majority of junior doctors do NOT work weekends and 90% of gps do NOT work weekends, I suggest you direct your anger at this anomaly the next time you or your loved ones do not get scanned or treated as thoughly on the weekends as the weekdays...the results can be catastrophic

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What has the failings (down to trust managers) to do with junior drs?

down to trust managers? the nurses werent feeding them nor giving them water to survive? they died of thirst?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

I never said the former or the latter, the fact is a majority of junior doctors do NOT work weekends and 90% of gps do NOT work weekends, I suggest you direct your anger at this anomaly the next time you or your loved ones do not get scanned or treated as thoughly on the weekends as the weekdays...the results can be catastrophic

If a department requires drs they are on, if it doesn't they aren't.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

down to trust managers? the nurses werent feeding them nor giving them water to survive? they died of thirst?

Staffing is an issue, which is why trusts are forced to rely on expensive agency staff to make up numbers as there are not enough nurses recruited to manage effectively.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If a department requires drs they are on, if it doesn't they aren't.

that is 100% wrong. the majority refuse to work weekends so more people get sick and die

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Staffing is an issue, which is why trusts are forced to rely on expensive agency staff to make up numbers as there are not enough nurses recruited to manage effectively.

trusts grew vastly under labour as did the management , burocrats and their respective wages

this bled the nhs

labour also signed a 2004 deal to let 90% of gps off the hook with all out of hours work

The labour party also enslaves us to the EU further which means 1) it was way harder to get nurses and doctors outside the eu and 2) the 3.7 milllion increase in 10 years in population put enormous strain on nhs resources...the labour fans ignore all this and fail to join up the dots, this is why they are a total failure.

labour created this entire disaster

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They are exhausted and if those who can only criticise them bothered to go and talk to any of them you would clearly see that close up.
They do not want to be doing this but they were out supporting their colleagues while their bosses, the Consultants who support them totally, were covering all emergency care needs.

A great number of those Doctors out there for part of today were also going into work tonight until 8am tomorrow morning too.

mugs.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

that is 100% wrong. the majority refuse to work weekends so more people get sick and die

That is !00% wrong, there is no evidence to support that theory.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

trusts grew vastly under labour as did the management , burocrats and their respective wages

this bled the nhs

labour also signed a 2004 deal to let 90% of gps off the hook with all out of hours work

The labour party also enslaves us to the EU further which means 1) it was way harder to get nurses and doctors outside the eu and 2) the 3.7 milllion increase in 10 years in population put enormous strain on nhs resources...the labour fans ignore all this and fail to join up the dots, this is why they are a total failure.

labour created this entire disaster

The conservatives are finishing the NHS, by sending foreign born nurses back whilst driving jr drs abroad too, who will man the NHS then? Paving the way for privatisation as they continue to suggest it's a failing system, it is because it's on the same as Liverpool 'managed decline'.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That is !00% wrong, there is no evidence to support that theory.

You are spot on and sadly wasting your time too Kizzy as I was yesterday evening on here.

It seems those against this strike seems to know how to care for Patients,treat them and save their lives better than the Junior Doctors do,unbelievable.
This strike has the support,unusually,of even the Consultants who feel this is a very bad contract for their Junior Doctor staff.

Hence why they covered the emergency issues as to Hospitals yesterday and today.

Lets hope those who can only criticise and get at the Doctors never need them, if most of them are still there in Hospitals in the future, after this contract gets 'forced' on them all.

I am appalled at some of the views on here as to the Doctors striking
Thankfully yesterday standing with them myself outside a hospital, those against were a very small minority indeed and gave encouragement to the Junior Doctors in this just fight against this shocking and badly planned contract.

[Kazanne]

I found this quite a good read http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34775980

[Kizzy]

As is this
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...P=share_btn_tw