[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This I agree with Kazanne (how unusual! Haha...) the response has been awful. Lots of jeering, sneering and clapping at people, most of whom are just genuinely worried about their future and their family's futures. Very few people who believe in Brexit bothering to take the time to reassure those who are worried that it will be OK? Or explain why they believe those fears aren't realistic? It makes me wonder, do they actually believe that it WILL be OK, or even care? Far far too much "we won we won lololol you lose losers!" as if it's all done and dusted now, nowhere near enough people saying "OK listen guys, here's how it's going to be better for all of us".


In my case specifically, I have a disabled daughter. Her future is uncertain at the absolute best of times, and it's terrifying. When things like this go on and create even more instability the anxiety it causes is very real, because I just simply do not trust the government we have in this country - now that it will be unrestrained - not to simply throw her / us on the trash heap. I don't trust this result not to generate the sort of economic instability that will make it impossible for us to build our own nestegg to protect her.

I can appreciate that when I was in my early 20's and had no responsibilities, I might have found this result / taking a risk at the unknown exciting even. I don't have that luxury anymore.

I agree. There hasn't been a single person address mine or anyone else's concerns, try to reassure me that this and that won't happen and that everything will be okay, it has just been endless gloating about how it's 'independence day' and 'we've got our country back!' which if anything is just terrifying isolationism that I have no interest in being a part of.

I'm really sick of hearing about 'sour grapes' and being 'bitter'. Of course I'm ****ing bitter, as far as I am concerned my future has been ****ed and the things I care about the most are now at risk of being trashed forever by a hardline Tory right waiting in the wings of power, who will have absolutely no restraint on what they can do to the public services and rights of people in this country.

None of this has been addressed, either before the vote or after it. And it ****ing sucks.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I agree. There hasn't been a single person address mine or anyone else's concerns, try to reassure me that this and that won't happen and that everything will be okay, it has just been endless gloating about how it's 'independence day' and 'we've got our country back!' which if anything is just terrifying isolationism that I have no interest in being a part of.

I'm really sick of hearing about 'sour grapes' and being 'bitter'. Of course I'm ****ing bitter, as far as I am concerned my future has been ****ed and the things I care about the most are now at risk of being trashed forever by a hardline Tory right waiting in the wings of power, who will have absolutely no restraint on what they can do to the public services and rights of people in this country.

None of this has been addressed, either before the vote or after it. And it ****ing sucks.

"try to reassure me that this and that won't happen and that everything will be okay,"








I thought by day 2 the bitterness would have subsided somewhat?


Dont forget Jack you are still a EU citizen and will be for the next 2 years

there - do you feel better?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I agree. There hasn't been a single person address mine or anyone else's concerns, try to reassure me that this and that won't happen and that everything will be okay, it has just been endless gloating about how it's 'independence day' and 'we've got our country back!' which if anything is just terrifying isolationism that I have no interest in being a part of.

I'm really sick of hearing about 'sour grapes' and being 'bitter'. Of course I'm ****ing bitter, as far as I am concerned my future has been ****ed and the things I care about the most are now at risk of being trashed forever by a hardline Tory right waiting in the wings of power, who will have absolutely no restraint on what they can do to the public services and rights of people in this country.

None of this has been addressed, either before the vote or after it. And it ****ing sucks.

It does for sure Jack_.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"try to reassure me that this and that won't happen and that everything will be okay,"








I thought by day 2 the bitterness would have subsided somewhat?


Dont forget Jack you are still a EU citizen and will be for the next 2 years

there - do you feel better?

See, more gloating. This only confirms to me that the people who voted leave haven't a clue about what the consequences of their decision will be, they haven't considered half of the outcomes and have voted merely on a pack of lies and buzzwords about how we'll 'take our country back'. That really fills me with confidence.

I'm aware we'll still be a part of the EU for the considerable future, but the issues don't change. The negotiations for our exit will not just be led by a party whose priorities I already fear don't align with mine, but by a leader of a party who will inevitably be even worse than the one that's just resigned. None of the issues I care and am worried about are likely to be on the table, it will be the same old **** that was recited ad nauseam throughout the campaign on both sides - trade, the economy and immigration. I don't give a **** about any of these things, I want reassurances about the public services and rights that are current protected and likely going to be at the bottom of the pile come the negotiations.

The timing of when we leave doesn't make these issues go away, perhaps if we had a different government I may have a different perspective on the whole thing but as it is we don't, and I am terrified at the prospect of what the next two, five, ten years will bring for this country. But no, you go back to your cheering about how 'we're free' and we've 'taken back control' or whatever meaningless phrases that apparently makes this result so great. Meanwhile the rest of us who've considered and care about the consequences this'll have on many people's lives will continue to be concerned about the direction the UK is about to take

[reece(:]

Jack

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jack_

See, more gloating. This only confirms to me that the people who voted leave haven't a clue about what the consequences of their decision will be, they haven't considered half of the outcomes and have voted merely on a pack of lies and buzzwords about how we'll 'take our country back'. That really fills me with confidence.

I'm aware we'll still be a part of the EU for the considerable future, but the issues don't change. The negotiations for our exit will not just be led by a party whose priorities I already fear don't align with mine, but by a leader of a party who will inevitably be even worse than the one that's just resigned. None of the issues I care and am worried about are likely to be on the table, it will be the same old **** that was recited ad nauseam throughout the campaign on both sides - trade, the economy and immigration. I don't give a **** about any of these things, I want reassurances about the public services and rights that are current protected and likely going to be at the bottom of the pile come the negotiations.

The timing of when we leave doesn't make these issues go away, perhaps if we had a different government I may have a different perspective on the whole thing but as it is we don't, and I am terrified at the prospect of what the next two, five, ten years will bring for this country. But no, you go back to your cheering about how 'we're free' and we've 'taken back control' or whatever meaningless phrases that apparently makes this result so great. Meanwhile the rest of us who've considered and care about the consequences this'll have on many people's lives will continue to be concerned about the direction the UK is about to take

All the parties in parliament should be part of the negotiations of any deal in my view.
In the end,it is in fact parliament who will have to approve any deal agreed with the EU,so for me,this should be a parliamentary across the board deal sought.

It should not be left just to the present govt and the new incoming PM, nor to just those on the leave side or indeed the remain side either.

[user104658]

That's the impression I'm getting a lot Jack. People aren't avoiding being reassuring because they want to... It's because they can't. They feel in their hearts that it will all be great but I've not seen one person even attempt to articulate why... Because they can't.

Unless you count all the old fellas in my place of work. "Coz we can get rid of all them extremists noo!"

[AnnieK]

To be fair I spoke....actually physically spoke to some staunch Brexit supporters last night and was fully expecting some gloating etc being the only Remainer around the table...but I didn't get that. They actually told me why they think it will begetter and acknowledged that initially things will be difficult (for a far less time than I believe but they acknowledged it none the less). The main feeling around that table was of deciding our own fate through elected parliament rather than appointed EU officials, being able to negotiate better trade deals (and the odd immigration comment).

[Tom4784]

The leave campaign was just a protest vote and ,like all protest votes, it was based on pure idealism rather than anything realistic. Micheal Gove literally told people not to pay attention to financial experts and went as far as to call them nazis in order to discredit the truth, Nigel Farage lied through his teeth, none of the supposed benefits of leaving EU as stated by the leave campaign are actually true.

Leave is a pipedream that's going to turn into a living nightmare and we're all going to be forced to live it. We're simply going backwards out of spite.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Livia

I haven't seen much gloating personally, although I have seen some. What I've seen quite a lot of is moaning from people who didn't get the vote they were expecting and a lot of insults toward the people who voted Out.... xenophobe, it's the older generation screwing the younger generation because all elderly people are racist, the suggestion that only those who voted to remain had really thought about it... The childishness on both sides needs to stop if anything is ever going to be discussed in an adult way. The decision has been made and now it's up to all of us to make it work, whether that's the way you voted or not.

This.

I've seen people wishing the older generation death and suffering and I think its absolutely disgusting. These people fought to give us the right to vote, and there are some people out there all happy because "oh they'll be dead soon anyway!!"

Absolutely disgusting.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The leave campaign was just a protest vote and ,like all protest votes, it was based on pure idealism rather than anything realistic. Micheal Gove literally told people not to pay attention to financial experts and went as far as to call them nazis in order to discredit the truth, Nigel Farage lied through his teeth, none of the supposed benefits of leaving EU as stated by the leave campaign are actually true.

Leave is a pipedream that's going to turn into a living nightmare and we're all going to be forced to live it. We're simply going backwards out of spite.

"The leave campaign was just a protest vote"


Incorrect and arrogant

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

This.

I've seen people wishing the older generation death and suffering and I think its absolutely disgusting. These people fought to give us the right to vote, and there are some people out there all happy because "oh they'll be dead soon anyway!!"

Absolutely disgusting.

Most young people have no concept of the bs we were fed in 1975 to join - and what the common market actually was back then and the vile beast that it morphed into all these years later

[Tom4784]

Like I've said before, acting like the Remainers are evil because they're annoyed that fear won the vote is ridiculous. They are allowed just as much of an opinion as you are.

I'll say it again, if the Remainers having a negative opinion is so offensive to you then be glad Leave didn't lose. You think all those extreme right wing groups would have been all 'oh well, we lost nevermind ' **** no. All you'll get from the Remainers is a bit of saltiness which they are entitled to, there would have been violence if Leave lost.

[Denver]

I dont know why people are desperate to be in the EU when it looks like its about to collapse with all its major countries wanting out

[Livia]

I spoke to a friend of mine this morning who works for the Tories. She tells me that there's been a surge in membership since the result, and since Cameron stepped down.

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I spoke to a friend of mine this morning who works for the Tories. She tells me that there's been a surge in membership since the result, and since Cameron stepped down.

If I become a member will I be allowed to vote for the next Prime Minister? It's only £5 a month right?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Riley95

If I become a member will I be allowed to vote for the next Prime Minister? It's only £5 a month right?

If you're under 23 it's £5, otherwise it's £25. To be a qualifying member you have to have been a member for three months before the leader election. So if you want to vote, you should join now.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I spoke to a friend of mine this morning who works for the Tories. She tells me that there's been a surge in membership since the result, and since Cameron stepped down.

Ironic (and terrifying) considering that he was probably the best out of a bad bunch.

The thought of Boris or Osbourne filling in until the next election fills me with dread.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ironic (and terrifying) considering that he was probably the best out of a bad bunch.

The thought of Boris or Osbourne filling in until the next election fills me with dread.

I'm actually okay with Boris. Osborne though... scary.

What we need of course, is a brand new party with a brand new way to govern. If only...

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

All the parties in parliament should be part of the negotiations of any deal in my view.
In the end,it is in fact parliament who will have to approve any deal agreed with the EU,so for me,this should be a parliamentary across the board deal sought.

It should not be left just to the present govt and the new incoming PM, nor to just those on the leave side or indeed the remain side either.

I agree, and I hope that is the case. A negotiation led by a Tory PM even worse than the one we have now is not something I wish to envisage.

Originally Posted by Ninastar

This.

I've seen people wishing the older generation death and suffering and I think its absolutely disgusting. These people fought to give us the right to vote, and there are some people out there all happy because "oh they'll be dead soon anyway!!"

Absolutely disgusting.

Most of the criticism is being directed at those aged 60+, you have to be pushing 80 to be a part of the people who fought for suffrage.

I'm not denying anyone the right to vote, it is what it is and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Do I think the futures of those who are likely to be around to experience the consequences are more important though? Yes, but again that doesn't mean those who won't be shouldn't be entitled to vote.

There's nothing disgusting about thinking like that, I don't wish anyone dead, but acknowledging that this (like many other societal issues) is a generational thing that'll change over time and those who long for progression only have to wait is perfectly fine.

Someone I know from uni put it well on Facebook yesterday, even if this isn't the result that a majority of 18-25 year olds wanted, we should take solace in the fact than an overwhelming number of us voted for inclusion, solidarity and for the protection of a number of rights that are under threat by the UK government. That's a positive thing, it shows that we are progressive and forward thinking and that in time, just like many other things we've been on the right side of history for, we will get what we hope for. It's just a matter of weathering the storm that's coming before we get there.

Originally Posted by Livia

I spoke to a friend of mine this morning who works for the Tories. She tells me that there's been a surge in membership since the result, and since Cameron stepped down.

That isn't a good thing, it means there's more people frothing at the mouth about the thought of dismantling our public services and at last being able to eradicate the rights of working people without any restraint whatsoever.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ironic (and terrifying) considering that he was probably the best out of a bad bunch.

The thought of Boris or Osbourne filling in until the next election fills me with dread.

No he will go in Oct.

Dezzy see this as a New Movie Script

[arista]

"I'm not denying anyone the right to vote,"


But Young Jack
why do the Fecking Young folks
not Get out of bed and Fecking Vote


Feel The Force

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm actually okay with Boris. Osborne though... scary.

What we need of course, is a brand new party with a brand new way to govern. If only...

Livia, I need to say all your posts are so on the ball for me re all this, I feel I don't need to debate any points as yourself and Kirky both, especially, are doing that splendidly imho. All I can add is everyone is entitled to vote whichever way and for whatever reasons they want whether some agree or not. We are out the EU and the acceptance of that needs to come, and I absolutely believe it's for the best, although as with most things only time will tell, but I feel confident we got the right result.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

To be fair I spoke....actually physically spoke to some staunch Brexit supporters last night and was fully expecting some gloating etc being the only Remainer around the table...but I didn't get that. They actually told me why they think it will begetter and acknowledged that initially things will be difficult (for a far less time than I believe but they acknowledged it none the less). The main feeling around that table was of deciding our own fate through elected parliament rather than appointed EU officials, being able to negotiate better trade deals (and the odd immigration comment).

Is that an English born to English born person debate Annie? Because it doesn't feel very nice being a non English person in this country at the moment, I've never felt this way in all the years I have lived here in all honesty

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm actually okay with Boris. Osborne though... scary.

What we need of course, is a brand new party with a brand new way to govern. If only...

Boris is like Mr. Bean, someone great for a laugh but I don't want him in power.

I'm just hoping that people remember what the Tories tried to do to Tax Credits and ESA when it comes to the next election.