[user104658]

You can actually stop with the xeno-scare propaganda now Kirk... the vote is done...

[Northern Monkey]

An excellent discussion reflecting on Brexit.Well worth a watch

Youtube video

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You can actually stop with the xeno-scare propaganda now Kirk... the vote is done...

You, and certain other defeated 'Remainers' are still posting absolutely false B.S. propaganda about Brexit and the EU on every thread - even though the 'vote is done' - yet you have the temerity to post this hypocrisy above.

Is there one rule for you defeated 'Remainers' and another for us 'victors'?

I think not - especially since ALL my posts are 100% factual.

If you want to confine your comments to acually debating the facts, then I will gladly accomodate you, but stop giving me unsolicited advice to stop doing the very thing you are doing oevery EU thread.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You, and certain other defeated 'Remainers' are still posting absolutely false B.S. propaganda about Brexit and the EU on every thread - even though the 'vote is done' - yet you have the temerity to post this hypocrisy above.

Is there one rule for you defeated 'Remainers' and another for us 'victors'?

I think not - especially since ALL my posts are 100% factual.

If you want to confine your comments to acually debating the facts, then I will gladly accomodate you, but stop giving me unsolicited advice to stop doing the very thing you are doing oevery EU thread.

I'm just saying, you don't need to use immigrant bogeymen to convince people to "vote out" anymore... It's already worked . You could save lots of time and energy.

[Jack_]

These make for very interesting reading

https://www.facebook.com/tom.short.3...52?pnref=story

http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/why-th...-is-important/

I'm pretty sure article 50 will be triggered, but one thing is for sure is that 2016 is a great year for political buffs like me

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm just saying, you don't need to use immigrant bogeymen to convince people to "vote out" anymore... It's already worked . You could save lots of time and energy.

No, you are not just saying that at all, you are doing what EVERYONE on these forums KNOWs you do - popping in to a thread when someone is having sensible debate and posting in earnest, to post flippant and immature comments for the purpose of trying to show everyone what a 'clever little man' you are.

Thus, why you included the term 'Big chair' and a load of piss-taking nonsense to bait me on another - totally unrelated thread.

The only difference in my post which you allude to above and the posts which you keep making on various threads about Brexit and the EU, is that mine ARE factual.

Fecking grow up or stop trolling me.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's not ignorance (I like the not-so-subtle dig though, if this situation was reversed you'd be screaming about being bullied but okay.) The whole Leave campaign was built on the idea of putting an end to unlimited EU immigration but now they've got their way the Leave camp is going back on that, it's not something that's going to change since we need the EU market and will have to play by EU's rules to access it. Remainers have been saying this for months.

I said that the Leave campaign was built on nothing more than idealism and I'm already being proved correct, two campaign promises have already been mooted and we're not even a week past the vote yet.

How can you possibly say 17 million people are all idealistic. Did you spend 6 months before the vote personally chatting to all of them about their voting motivations?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No, you are not just saying that at all, you are doing what EVERYONE on these forums KNOWs you do - popping in to a thread when someone is having sensible debate and posting in earnest, to post flippant and immature comments for the purpose of trying to show everyone what a 'clever little man' you are.

Thus, why you included the term 'Big chair' and a load of piss-taking nonsense to bait me on another - totally unrelated thread.

The only difference in my post which you allude to above and the posts which you keep making on various threads about Brexit and the EU, is that mine ARE factual.

Fecking grow up or stop trolling me.

The big chair comment was entirely relevant as an illustration of a leave voter who has an inflated idea of post-Brexit Britain's level of influence and importance. I find the comment ridiculous... It's stands out to me - genuinely - even amongst all of the comments I've seen across Facebook etc.

None of my comments have been flippant and I am perfectly well informed. Immature might be a matter of opinion. I can be immature. I enjoy being immature. I'm not about to change how I post, because I find that the ability to get under people's skin just that little bit is a surefire way to get them to blurt out their true opinions and intentions once all of the "mature, sensible, structured debate" BS is stripped back. It works exceptionally well with yourself, for example.

I personally don't consider it to be trolling. You might, and that's fine, feel free to ignore it if so (although it can be hard to ignore trolls, I realise, I've been trying and failing all day today).

As a final trolly thought though:

I have literally no idea why you are so sure that your opinions are "facts".

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by _Tom_

Whatever happened to "back of the queue"?

I knew Obama was blowing hot air when he said it. I'm used to it by now.
"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". "I'm not coming after your guns". "I'm not going to hire any lobbyists in my administration" on and on and on. The man is a fraud and I cringed when he threatened the UK in that condescending way like the British would just eat it up. And actually, I think it backfired.

Why he has any kind of support in the UK I don't understand. I think people on both sides of the Atlantic are reluctant to criticize because he is the first African American president but people forget that there are scumbags in the world who happen to be black.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by _LucasMichael_

I'm yet to actually see any comments from youths wishing old people would just drop dead already, but if people are wanting to continue pushing that story arc then be my guest.

I should have said that it wasnt on here, but on my facebook. I've seen plenty of people saying it. I just think its disgusting

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I knew Obama was blowing hot air when he said it. I'm used to it by now.
"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". "I'm not coming after your guns". "I'm not going to hire any lobbyists in my administration" on and on and on. The man is a fraud and I cringed when he threatened the UK in that condescending way like the British would just eat it up. And actually, I think it backfired.

Why he has any kind of support in the UK I don't understand. I think people on both sides of the Atlantic are reluctant to criticize because he is the first African American president but people forget that there are scumbags in the world who happen to be black.

Honey, he, like most people, knows that the UK just committed suicide. There's nothing more to say. It will pay the ultimate price in the end. It's like the Iraq war. People who were opposed were raked over the coals. In the end, they were proven right. Obama, and everyone else who warned the UK against what they just stupidity did, will also be proven right. All you have to do now is sit back and watch the country sink into the abyss. In this case, the UK will just become completely politically and economically irrelevant on the world's stage while paying bucket loads to do business with anyone.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by letmein

Honey, he, like most people, knows that the UK just committed suicide. There's nothing more to say. It will pay the ultimate price in the end. It's like the Iraq war. People who were opposed were raked over the coals. In the end, they were proven right. Obama, and everyone else who warned the UK against what they just stupidity did, will also be proven right. All you have to do now is sit back and watch the country sink into the abyss. In this case, the UK will just become completely politically and economically irrelevant on the world's stage while paying bucket loads to do business with anyone.

Obama is a globalist like most politicians. I don't think he believes the US and UK should exist as sovereign nations with their own unique cultures and peoples. He should have said the US would be a friend of the UK regardless of how they voted. But he threatened them.

I don't think you committed suicide but I do think you have to watch your backs because the EU might try to ruin you guys as an example.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You, and certain other defeated 'Remainers' are still posting absolutely false B.S. propaganda about Brexit and the EU on every thread - even though the 'vote is done' - yet you have the temerity to post this hypocrisy above.

Is there one rule for you defeated 'Remainers' and another for us 'victors'?

I think not - especially since ALL my posts are 100% factual.

If you want to confine your comments to acually debating the facts, then I will gladly accomodate you, but stop giving me unsolicited advice to stop doing the very thing you are doing oevery EU thread.

Us 'victors'? you say this like there's a prize, is farage handing out bottles of prosecco for those who voted brexit?....

No is he balls, you're a big fat loser like the rest of us in this ex European dumping ground, the only thing that we'll be known for soon is for being the worlds nuclear waste drop off point.

[AnnieK]

The only thing that is factual about this result so far is the United Kingdom has never been less United. Beyond that, everything is conjecture and a waiting game that is scary for some and exciting for others. We will struggle to move forwards with the level of division and people just waiting to say I told you so on both sides.

[Northern Monkey]

I think alot has been said of the leave campaign.Saying how bad it was but the remain campaign have been just as bad.
The scare tactics they've used have actually struck fear into the hearts of alot of remainers who actually believed alot of this stuff.

There are people on the remain side who actually think that we've left Europe and are set to float off into the Atlantic somewhere in....."isolation"......A word that has been used many many times in this campaign to try and make people think that we will now be just sat shivering in some cold corner of the globe(yes i know globes don't have corners).
Another one used by Tim Farron on various occasions is that we will be "glowering off the cliffs of Dover" as if we all hate Europe now.We don't hate Europe or its people and we have not left Europe.People need to try and grasp that.

All we've done is freed ourselves from a corrupt corporate organisation who holds power over and dictates to all the citizens of Europe to shape it HOW THEY WANT IT TO BE not WHAT IS BEST FOR IT'S PEOPLE.
European countries should all have a referendum and decide if they really still want to be dictated to by this monster or free themselves as we Great Britain have done.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Us 'victors'? you say this like there's a prize, is farage handing out bottles of prosecco for those who voted brexit?....

No is he balls, you're a big fat loser like the rest of us in this ex European dumping ground, the only thing that we'll be known for soon is for being the worlds nuclear waste drop off point.

zzzzz - another who floats from thread to thread, interjecting or commenting without actually adding anything of merit to the subjects being discussed.

Go look up the word 'Victor' in any dictionary dear - 'Remain' and 'Leave' were opponents in the Referendum, hence the word 'victors'.

As for; "is Farage (capitalise dear girl) handing out bottles of Prosseco" (capitalise dear girl) - NO, Nigel does not have to, he has handed us all the greatest prize that anyone could - our country back.

It is a country which has been extensively damaged and robbed of its culture, its traditions, and half a trillion pounds of its money over the 42 years since it was handed over to Brussels by traitor Heath, and there is a lot of of hard work to do to redress all the wrongs inflicted upon it, but it is now our country again, and I'm not afraid of hard work. Are you?

p.s.

I love the curious manner in which - in the space of a few days - your pro-'Remain' mumblings that this country is better 'IN' the EU, have now transmogrified into 'Ex-European dumping ground'.

[Wizard.]

The way I see it is that the UK is Katniss Everdeen and the EU is President Snow and we have stood up and started a rebellion and we will take them down!

[AnnieK]

I have just had this sent to me over Facebook....apparently it's from the comments section in the comments section of the Guardian....

12:56

From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Don't know how true it is but it was an interesting read...Any thoughts?

[arista]

"Tory party has become a poison chalice."


No it has Not
but 8 Labour Ministers have resigned Today

[bots]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I have just had this sent to me over Facebook....apparently it's from the comments section in the comments section of the Guardian....

12:56

From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Don't know how true it is but it was an interesting read...Any thoughts?

Its a case of massaging facts to match a scenario. The people decided to exit the EU, so any leader that formally submits the exit request is following the will of the people.

The snp could veto the vote and they have a mandate to do it based on their countries voting, and what that would do is hasten independence because they would tie casting their veto to Scotland getting a referendum.

I don't see a need to rush anything personally. We will all be better prepared, at home and in europe with some time to reflect.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Its a case of massaging facts to match a scenario. The people decided to exit the EU, so any leader that formally submits the exit request is following the will of the people.

The snp could veto the vote and they have a mandate to do it based on their countries voting, and what that would do is hasten independence because they would tie casting their veto to Scotland getting a referendum.

I don't see a need to rush anything personally. We will all be better prepared, at home and in europe with some time to reflect.

One Conservative MP on TV today, James cleverly,thinks we should not even think of triggering Article 50,until at least 2019.
Parliament as a whole could I think, go for that.

Over 400 MPs do not want to leave the EU at all, legally too from all accounts, I thought it was but you are right, this result and referendum is 'not' binding on the government.

It seems no one has a single clue as to the best thing to do now,not even the leaders of the 'leave' campaign.
Except for Nigel Farage,who isn't an MP anyway.

[Northern Monkey]

One thing's for sure though.Whoever becomes the next PM will have to trigger article 50.It is what the electorate have decided.The pressure will be huge.

[user104658]

Exactly Joey, it sort of seems like the big figures in Brexit have been like;

"Yaaaayyyy, yaaaaaayyy we did it guys! We won! We won the referendum! OK so now what? What do you mean "dunno"? I don't know either! I thought YOU knew what we were doing next?? Errrrr..."

Seems like exceptionally poor planning. Like there should have been a road map drawn up for post-Brexit long before the vote. My only conclusion can be that they honestly didn't think that it was actually going to happen.

[VanessaFeltz.]

simple solution for people wanted to remain?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MelihV

simple solution for people wanted to remain?

mg: it's beautiful...