[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

As to your contention that we cannot enforce a government which is open and honest and 'for the peope' - WE CAN T.S.

There are probably more brains on this forum than among some of our MP's - who could not secure jobs as dustbin men if it were not for the meal ticket which is Westminster - and if we all resoved to campaign over the net or whatever, that will be picked up on, believe me, and something revolutionary COULD happen.

It will NOT happen if we are defeatist and overwhelmed.

I didn't say we can't, I said we probably won't. Something revolutionary could happen, but it probably won't.

Is that being defeatist? Probably, but it's also realistic and firmly based on literally ALL of the evidence... there is no indication that we will change this. I don't have faith in the public. I honest-to-my-socks believe that 75% of the public is unintelligent, pig-ignorant and easily lead and will continue to vote for whatever it is The Sun happens to be telling them to vote for that week. There have been three major votes here in the last year - that is exactly what has happened in every single one of them.

I know that's not a popular opinion and people get butt-hurt over it, "U can't tell dat peoples are teh stoopid dat is rong!" and Ammi will tell me off and stuff, but god damn it they just straight up are. Most people. Stupid. You know it.

Sigh.

It's not even that I can't appreciate the challenge or the sense of adventure here Kirk. I said in another thread, when I was a student in my early 20's I would actually have been all for this. Genuinely all for it. I know that the EU is an elitist shambles and that's the sort of thing I hate with a passion. I just also know that UK domestic politics is no different. Unencumbered by responsibility I'd be all for fighting that and hoping that it could be changed, even if the chance is small, I'd say "**** it let's give it a damned good shot".

I don't have that luxury now. And my gut feeling is that we have damaged the country, irreparably. We won't get the sort of trade deals we would like, we won't have much of a seat at the world table for long, and every single normal individual in this country will be worse off - and some cripplingly, disastrously so - for no real political gain. Living under scummy overlords. Doesn't matter if they're in London or Brussels or a dome on the Moon.