[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by jaxie

What do you use as yours?

I posted a bunch of reasons why I don't think the SNP will try another referendum at this time. Do you have any facts to believe otherwise. If the guardian is wrong about the financial deficit, where are the articles to correct it?

well "you think" is not a fact its just your personal opinion and as no referendum is on the table I am not sure what "facts" you wish to see?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well "you think" is not a fact its just your personal opinion and as no referendum is on the table I am not sure what "facts" you wish to see?

I said Scotland does nicely out of the union.

You said "yes I suppose if you just use the DM and DE as your news source"

So what news sources can you provide to give weight to your opinion that Scotland doesn't do nicely out of the union?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I said Scotland does nicely out of the union.

You said "yes I suppose if you just use the DM and DE as your news source"

So what news sources can you provide to give weight to your opinion that Scotland doesn't do nicely out of the union?

What do you mean by nicely and why do you think that the Union should be detrimental to Scotland?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What do you mean by nicely and why do you think that the Union should be detrimental to Scotland?

That's not what I said at all let's not imply I said things I didn't say. Where are your articles?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by jaxie

That's not what I said at all let's not imply I said things I didn't say. Where are your articles?

i actually have no idea what you are asking. What does nicely mean?

[joeysteele]

Scotland does nicely,I think not.

It has been taken for granted by the 2 main Parties for decades, even when the Conservatives did rather well there until the early 80s.

Yes it was UK oil but oil the UK would not have been able to have and squander the proceeds from, had Scotland not been a Nation in the UK.

Scotland was used as a dumping ground for unsavoury policies testing such as the hated poll tax.

Worst of all, near all Scotland's concerns are just dismissed by, in the main England, of the UK now.

It would now even be pointless to have a Scottish leader in a Scottish seat as leader of a Major UK party now too,with the votes for England policy, a Scottish leader as PM would not be able to vote on his/her own polices if it didn't affect Scotland.

So now what we have is a situation where only an MP in an English seat is advisable to have as a leader.

Scotland does nicely, not at all I'd say.

[Toy Soldier]

Certain people were desperate to be out of Europe because they didn't like being under the control of elites who they did not elect... And yet don't seem to understand the problem with Scotland being under Westminster control. Hmm.

[smudgie]

I have no problem with a totally independent Scotland.
We could get a visa to visit this beautiful country, no problem.
My only concern is that it is not very long since the last referendum, if Nicola was given the nod to join Europe from the other 27 countries then I can see the advantages and the reasoning behind it.

[MTVN]

Well it seems strange to me that the SNP are so affronted by the prospect of leaving one union that their response is to demand the leaving of a much more deeply embedded and longer standing union. They fear the ramifications of leaving the EU yet dismiss the consequences of breaking up the UK. Project Fear against Brexit = sensible, Project Fear against Scottish Independence = outrageous. When all experts and informed opinion line up against Brexit its a consensus, when they do it against independence its a Westminster conspiracy.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I have no problem with a totally independent Scotland.
We could get a visa to visit this beautiful country, no problem.
My only concern is that it is not very long since the last referendum, if Nicola was given the nod to join Europe from the other 27 countries then I can see the advantages and the reasoning behind it.

However smudgie, she will not be holding any referendum soon, we may not actually be out of the EU for anything up to or even beyond 7 years.

She could wait until the next Holyrood elections and combine the 2.

Nothing can be done until we see what the UK negotiates and gets from the EU, it may be the final deal is not too different from what we have now in the end.
The EU will not 'deal' with Scotland until, out of respect for the UK and this vote,the matter of the UKs exit is nearer finalised.

That is when Nicola and the Scottish parliament can then have their concerns addressed,all she needs in place before, is the granting of a referendum to be so called by the Scottish govt.

The referendum does not need to be held for years.
She has that time because in my opinion, the Scottish Nationailst party will be governing Scotland for at least another decade or more.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

However smudgie, she will not be holding any referendum soon, we may not actually be out of the EU for anything up to or even beyond 7 years.

She could wait until the next Holyrood elections and combine the 2.

Nothing can be done until we see what the UK negotiates and gets from the EU, it may be the final deal is not too different from what we have now in the end.
The EU will not 'deal' with Scotland until, out of respect for the UK and this vote,the matter of the UKs exit is nearer finalised.

That is when Nicola and the Scottish parliament can then have their concerns addressed,all she needs in place before, is the granting of a referendum to be so called by the Scottish govt.

The referendum does not need to be held for years.
She has that time because in my opinion, the Scottish Nationailst party will be governing Scotland for at least another decade or more.

She has shown her interest, at least Europe now know where she stands.
Perhaps it would be wise to leave it until the next election.
I totally agree with you that Nicola Sturgeon is pretty safe as the Scottish leader. I don't personally like her, but she certainly puts her party first and will fight for her country.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

She has shown her interest, at least Europe now know where she stands.
Perhaps it would be wise to leave it until the next election.
I totally agree with you that Nicola Sturgeon is pretty safe as the Scottish leader. I don't personally like her, but she certainly puts her party first and will fight for her country.

She for sure does smudgie.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well it seems strange to me that the SNP are so affronted by the prospect of leaving one union that their response is to demand the leaving of a much more deeply embedded and longer standing union. They fear the ramifications of leaving the EU yet dismiss the consequences of breaking up the UK. Project Fear against Brexit = sensible, Project Fear against Scottish Independence = outrageous. When all experts and informed opinion line up against Brexit its a consensus, when they do it against independence its a Westminster conspiracy.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Certain people were desperate to be out of Europe because they didn't like being under the control of elites who they did not elect... And yet don't seem to understand the problem with Scotland being under Westminster control. Hmm.

Westminster don't make Scotland throw away their bent carrots and spend 4 years debating chocolate.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Westminster don't make Scotland throw away their bent carrots and spend 4 years debating chocolate.

Nah they just whack Ł15 a week taxes on the poorest and most vulnerable and force cancer patients into work.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Nah they just whack Ł15 a week taxes on the poorest and most vulnerable and force cancer patients into work.

One of the wonders of having a government you can vote out is that pressure can be brought to bear to change bad policies.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

One of the wonders of having a government you can vote out is that pressure can be brought to bear to change bad policies.

Except that Scotland cannot vote them out... And around we go again.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Except that Scotland cannot vote them out... And around we go again.

Scotland could have voted labour and had a very real chance of getting them out.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Scotland could have voted labour and had a very real chance of getting them out.

Incorrect, if every single Scottish constituency had been Labour, the Tories would still have had an overall majority.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Incorrect, if every single Scottish constituency had been Labour, the Tories would still have had an overall majority.

I did say would have had a chance, not specifically would have won this time. Better luck next time? Or vote SNP and keep the tories in. You decide!

[Johnnyuk123]

Is Scotland gonna be the new Greece?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Is Scotland gonna be the new Greece?

It's OK if it is, I'll just come and live with all of you in the land of gold and rainbows that is post Brexit England. Because I kidnapped one of your English wimmins and impregnated her with my Scottish penis. Muahaha, love it when a plan comes together.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's OK if it is, I'll just come and live with all of you in the land of gold and rainbows that is post Brexit England. Because I kidnapped one of your English wimmins and impregnated her with my Scottish penis. Muahaha, love it when a plan comes together.

You know it will rain right?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You know it will rain right?

Of course, how else would there be rainbows?