[halfacrown]

Originally Posted by lovebigbrotheruk

This is just hypothetical. Have you any evidence that they wouldn't be appalled or...? My guess is no since most of them aren't alive anymore.

Not hypothetical at all! I am one of them myself. Yeah, I've had the black eyes, the broken ribs.. literally helped to fight against a crowd of Nazi-supporting skinheads trying to force their way into a gay pub. Queer bashing was rife in schools and on the street. I was born into a world where being actively gay was literally against the law. When you've lived in that world, it is not possible to be worked up about opinions like Biggins'. I disagree with him, but I respect him greatly.

[lovebigbrotheruk]

Originally Posted by halfacrown

Not hypothetical at all! I am one of them myself. Yeah, I've had the black eyes, the broken ribs.. literally helped to fight against a crowd of Nazi-supporting skinheads trying to force their way into a gay pub. Queer bashing was rife in schools and on the street. I was born into a world where being actively gay was literally against the law. When you've lived in that world, it is not possible to be worked up about opinions like Biggins. I disagree with him, but I respect him greatly.

I have no respect for a man who speaks of his own community with such disdain. I prefer men of principle.

[halfacrown]

Originally Posted by lovebigbrotheruk

I have no respect for a man who speaks of his own community with such disdain. I prefer men of principle.

Your lack of respect is coming through loud and clear. It seems pretty clear that he was complaining about gay people who've pretended to be bi so as to be more easily accepted. Before you dismiss this out of I hand, I was one of many myself who did it! It was a pretence for expediency. Perhaps it is Biggins who is principled for rejecting the lie.

[lovebigbrotheruk]

Originally Posted by halfacrown

Your lack of respect is coming through loud and clear. It seems pretty clear that he was complaining about gay people who've pretended to be bi so as to be more easily accepted. Before you dismiss this out of I hand, I was one of many myself who did it! It was a pretence for expediency. Perhaps it is Biggins who is principled for rejecting the lie.

It is Biggins who is a big fat hypocrite for expecting respect for himself as a gay man, yet branding all bisexuals with the same brush with his unsubstantiated ignorance.

[halfacrown]

Originally Posted by lovebigbrotheruk

It is Biggins who is a big fat hypocrite for expecting respect for himself as a gay man, yet branding all bisexuals with the same brush with his unsubstantiated ignorance.

Now you're not making sense, and you're mixing metaphors... I don't see that he's demanded anything. I've just said that I don't think he was talking about bisexuals at all, he was talking about gay people pretending to be bi in order to gain acceptance. It's a genuine phenomenon. As I said: I did it myself.

[lovebigbrotheruk]

Originally Posted by halfacrown

Now you're not making sense, and you're mixing metaphors... I don't see that he's demanded anything. I've just said that I don't think he was talking about bisexuals at all, he was talking about gay people pretending to be bi in order to gain acceptance. It's a genuine phenomenon. As I said: I did it myself.

Maybe he should have made that more clear, but since you're not him nor his spokesperson, you can't claim he meant anything other than what he said. Like I said, he branded all bisexuals with the same brush. Unnacceptable.

[halfacrown]

Originally Posted by lovebigbrotheruk

Maybe he should have made that more clear, but since you're not him nor his spokesperson, you can't claim he meant anything other than what he said. Like I said, he branded all bisexuals with the same brush. Unnacceptable.

Okay, let's clear this up: you don't brand people with a brush, you brand with an iron. It's slightly ridiculous to demand clarity from people when you're talking about branding with brushes!

Another thing, my understanding of his comments comes directly from what he said, and I quote: "what it is is people not wanting to admit they are gay."

What is it that has actually upset you about his comments?

I disagree with condemning gay people for pretending to be bi (because coming out can be bloody difficult), but I don't disagree with his point that some people don't want to admit they're gay.

[Jan S]

Originally Posted by halfacrown

Not hypothetical at all! I am one of them myself. Yeah, I've had the black eyes, the broken ribs.. literally helped to fight against a crowd of Nazi-supporting skinheads trying to force their way into a gay pub. Queer bashing was rife in schools and on the street. I was born into a world where being actively gay was literally against the law. When you've lived in that world, it is not possible to be worked up about opinions like Biggins. I disagree with him, but I respect him greatly.

i don't respect biggins, but i certainly respect your post and shared attitude with hot2go on this topic

[halfacrown]

Originally Posted by Jan S

i don't respect biggins, but i certainly respect your post and shared attitude with hot2go on this topic

Thanks. So much has changed for the better for LGBT people, yet I find the fear of words and the rush to condemn people out of hand, extraordinary. I was chatting to a fairly young person recently about the gay scene of the early 80s and described a friend of mine as a 'butch dyke' and the person I was speaking to got very worked up about the description, until I explained that my friend had it tattooed on her arm!

[Clootie Dumpling]

Originally Posted by halfacrown

Not hypothetical at all! I am one of them myself. Yeah, I've had the black eyes, the broken ribs.. literally helped to fight against a crowd of Nazi-supporting skinheads trying to force their way into a gay pub. Queer bashing was rife in schools and on the street. I was born into a world where being actively gay was literally against the law. When you've lived in that world, it is not possible to be worked up about opinions like Biggins. I disagree with him, but I respect him greatly.

Well said, Half-a-Crown. I'm not sure that the previous poster is aware that they've just made an ageist comment, suggesting that those involved in the struggle you describe are probably all dead anyway!

[lovebigbrotheruk]

Originally Posted by Clootie Dumpling

Well said, Half-a-Crown. I'm not sure that the previous poster is aware that they've just made an ageist comment, suggesting that those involved in the struggle you describe are probably all dead anyway!

Excuse me, I'm talking about people like Antony Grey, Bob Mellors, and Ray Gosling, all of who have now passed away and whose views totally contradict those the OP made. Check yourself and educate yourself.

As for those pioneers who are alive, I have never heard any of them express similar views to those Biggins made. Just sayin'.

[Clootie Dumpling]

Originally Posted by lovebigbrotheruk

Excuse me, I'm talking about people like Antony Grey, Bob Mellors, and Ray Gosling, all of who have now passed away and whose views totally contradict those the OP made. Check yourself and educate yourself.

As for those pioneers who are alive, I have never heard any of them express similar views to those Biggins made. Just sayin'.

Please, don't make assumptions about the extent of my knowledge in this, or any other area. If you don't want your opinions to be misconstrued, perhaps you should consider expressing them more clearly.