[joeysteele]

Was what I expected of him,he is all over the place.
I imagine a lot there felt very uncomfortable listening to his near rants, surely no way will American voters elect such a man as president.
I really hope not and hope he is soundly beaten in this election.
What an opportunity missed by him to show even just the slightest bit of humility at such a function.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Was what I expected of him,he is all over the place.
I imagine a lot there felt very uncomfortable listening to his near rants, surely no way with American voters elect such a man as president.
I really hope not and hope he is soundly beaten in this election.
What an opportunity missed by him to show even just the slightest bit of humility at such a function.

If he had presented a level-headed and mature demeanor, humility as you say, and even a bit of self-deprecation here... making out that the campaign trail is all games and tactics and pointing out that once either one of them is in office it will be down to the "serious business" of actually being President, this was an opportunity for a major win for Trump.

The problem is of course that if he does win, it WON'T be down to the serious business of running the country, it'll still be games and "zingers" and immature posturing from him bumbling through with no idea what he's doing.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Was what I expected of him,he is all over the place.
I imagine a lot there felt very uncomfortable listening to his near rants, surely no way with American voters elect such a man as president.
I really hope not and hope he is soundly beaten in this election.
What an opportunity missed by him to show even just the slightest bit of humility at such a function.

I don't think a lot of people on here understand the American mind. Americans despise politicians. And when someone comes along who is not a politician even if they are a little crude and rude they consider it to be a breath of fresh air. Just to give you a fair warning: on Nov 9th you may be in for a shock with who Americans pick to be president.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I don't think a lot of people on here understand the American mind. Americans despise politicians. And when someone comes along who is not a politician even if they are a little crude and rude they consider it to be a breath of fresh air. Just to give you a fair warning: on Nov 9th you may be in for a shock with who Americans pick to be president.

I do have fears he will narrowly win this although I still hopefully feel he will not be able to break through the States he needs to win.

Some of my family who live in Los Angeles keep telling me not to be concerned as Hillary will in the end easily win this.
They have thus far in 20 years never got an American election wrong,hopefully they won't be wrong this time.

Thank you very much for your input and response to me ,I am always eager to hear the American view on elections too.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I don't think a lot of people on here understand the American mind. Americans despise politicians. And when someone comes along who is not a politician even if they are a little crude and rude they consider it to be a breath of fresh air. Just to give you a fair warning: on Nov 9th you may be in for a shock with who Americans pick to be president.

…with respect I think that we in the UK do have an understanding of a frustrated world atm..(which obviously includes the USA…)…because they’re world frustrations that are being felt and we also all too well understand with those frustrations, a dislike of government/parliament establishment in general, regardless of personal political leanings… but what you say, the way you say it…that anything ‘anti’ no matter what that ‘anti’, doesn’t make sense..it would just seem dumb to vote for anti because that’s all it was and I don’t believe that the people of the USA are dumb at all…the USA wasn’t built on dumb, it hasn’t become the nation it is through dumb….that’s like saying I hate dentists so I’ll have my hairdresser to do my teeth work because she’s not a dentist…/I hate the police force and someone is threatening someone so I’ll go get a waitress or something…however, if an alternative option was someone like a member of the armed forces/someone appropriate to a situation..?...then that’s an alternative consideration/I like the army forces, I’ll ask if this chap here can help because I hate police officers and he has experience…it’s not like voting to get Rage against the Machine to #1 over Simon Cowell because manufactured music is hated and Rage Against the Machine is anti so they’ll do../we’ll buy them on itunes instead….we wouldn’t even think in the UK of shall we have Ant or Dec to run against any of our ‘establishments’ unless either were someone who we felt were able and capable and had good, sound policies and qualities to admire and also had confidence in them being able to implement their changes….’anti’ is just such a dumb thing unless the anti itself is something to vote for and something of great meaning in it’s own right …not just any old unsavoury character with prejudices and who instils no confidence in any ability of being able to do a job or even understand a job of politics….

..Hilary might represent some of what is the worst in establishment, I get that…but her establishment is also what makes her the better qualified person to become President, she knows politics, she understands politics, she has lived much of her life in politics in some capacity…voting for Hilary mainly because she isn’t Trump might be far from the ideal in candidates but it does at least have some sense about it because of her political knowledge/a job requirement I would think…but voting for Trump because he’s not Hilary and because he’s not ‘establishment’ makes no sense at all because he has nothing else there on offer…. nothing, zilch, zero…I think (I hope..)…the great American people are smarter than that…otherwise the bigger shock might be for them…/be careful what they wish for…

[bots]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…with respect I think that we in the UK do have an understanding of a frustrated world atm..(which obviously includes the USA…)…because they’re world frustrations that are being felt and we also all too well understand with those frustrations, a dislike of government/parliament establishment in general, regardless of personal political leanings… but what you say, the way you say it…that anything ‘anti’ no matter what that ‘anti’, doesn’t make sense..it would just seem dumb to vote for anti because that’s all it was and I don’t believe that the people of the USA are dumb at all…the USA wasn’t built on dumb, it hasn’t become the nation it is through dumb….that’s like saying I hate dentists so I’ll have my hairdresser to do my teeth work because she’s not a dentist…/I hate the police force and someone is threatening someone so I’ll go get a waitress or something…however, if an alternative option was someone like a member of the armed forces/someone appropriate to a situation..?...then that’s an alternative consideration/I like the army forces, I’ll ask if this chap here can help because I hate police officers and he has experience…it’s not like voting to get Rage against the Machine to #1 over Simon Cowell because manufactured music is hated and Rage Against the Machine is anti so they’ll do../we’ll buy them on itunes instead….we wouldn’t even think in the UK of shall we have Ant or Dec to run against any of our ‘establishments’ unless either were someone who we felt were able and capable and had good, sound policies and qualities to admire and also had confidence in them being able to implement their changes….’anti’ is just such a dumb thing unless the anti itself is something to vote for and something of great meaning in it’s own right …not just any old unsavoury character with prejudices and who instils no confidence in any ability of being able to do a job or even understand a job of politics….

..Hilary might represent some of what is the worst in establishment, I get that…but her establishment is also what makes her the better qualified person to become President, she knows politics, she understands politics, she has lived much of her life in politics in some capacity…voting for Hilary mainly because she isn’t Trump might be far from the ideal in candidates but it does at least have some sense about it because of her political knowledge/a job requirement I would think…but voting for Trump because he’s not Hilary and because he’s not ‘establishment’ makes no sense at all because he has nothing else there on offer…. nothing, zilch, zero…I think (I hope..)…the great American people are smarter than that…otherwise the bigger shock might be for them…/be careful what they wish for…

You are applying logic to the voting decision though Ammi, and rule 1 of democracy is that you can vote for whatever your choice without need to justify it. That's how complete idiots get elected.

If we look back at the brexit vote, in the run up, one of the reasons people gave for voting brexit was to get rid of David Cameron. That was laughed at, at the time .... don't be stupid ... it wont affect him. As of today, he is no longer even an MP I'm a great believer that if something is meant to happen, it will, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…with respect I think that we in the UK do have an understanding of a frustrated world atm..(which obviously includes the USA…)…because they’re world frustrations that are being felt and we also all too well understand with those frustrations, a dislike of government/parliament establishment in general, regardless of personal political leanings… but what you say, the way you say it…that anything ‘anti’ no matter what that ‘anti’, doesn’t make sense..it would just seem dumb to vote for anti because that’s all it was and I don’t believe that the people of the USA are dumb at all…the USA wasn’t built on dumb, it hasn’t become the nation it is through dumb….that’s like saying I hate dentists so I’ll have my hairdresser to do my teeth work because she’s not a dentist…/I hate the police force and someone is threatening someone so I’ll go get a waitress or something…however, if an alternative option was someone like a member of the armed forces/someone appropriate to a situation..?...then that’s an alternative consideration/I like the army forces, I’ll ask if this chap here can help because I hate police officers and he has experience…it’s not like voting to get Rage against the Machine to #1 over Simon Cowell because manufactured music is hated and Rage Against the Machine is anti so they’ll do../we’ll buy them on itunes instead….we wouldn’t even think in the UK of shall we have Ant or Dec to run against any of our ‘establishments’ unless either were someone who we felt were able and capable and had good, sound policies and qualities to admire and also had confidence in them being able to implement their changes….’anti’ is just such a dumb thing unless the anti itself is something to vote for and something of great meaning in it’s own right …not just any old unsavoury character with prejudices and who instils no confidence in any ability of being able to do a job or even understand a job of politics….

..Hilary might represent some of what is the worst in establishment, I get that…but her establishment is also what makes her the better qualified person to become President, she knows politics, she understands politics, she has lived much of her life in politics in some capacity…voting for Hilary mainly because she isn’t Trump might be far from the ideal in candidates but it does at least have some sense about it because of her political knowledge/a job requirement I would think…but voting for Trump because he’s not Hilary and because he’s not ‘establishment’ makes no sense at all because he has nothing else there on offer…. nothing, zilch, zero…I think (I hope..)…the great American people are smarter than that…otherwise the bigger shock might be for them…/be careful what they wish for…

I always enjoy reading your posts (always polite) even when I might not agree with them. Right now, Americans are really, really bitter at Washington. And Americans generally like an underdog. Someone who fights. I've read one of his books and I've seen him with my own two eyes in person. He understands human psychology (at least in the US) in ways that few people seem to appreciate. Hillary has a problem in that she is not a very likable person. When the Clintons were in the White House a lot of people were sick of them. People who want to vote for someone will generally be more likely to go down to the polling station and vote than someone who wants to vote against someone. I really do think Trump is going to win and, to be honest, I don't even think it's going to be close. I think he'll win by at least 5%.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I always enjoy reading your posts (always polite) even when I might not agree with them. Right now, Americans are really, really bitter at Washington. And Americans generally like an underdog. Someone who fights. I've read one of his books and I've seen him with my own two eyes in person. He understands human psychology (at least in the US) in ways that few people seem to appreciate. Hillary has a problem in that she is not a very likable person. When the Clintons were in the White House a lot of people were sick of them. People who want to vote for someone will generally be more likely to go down to the polling station and vote than someone who wants to vote against someone. I really do think Trump is going to win and, to be honest, I don't even think it's going to be close. I think he'll win by at least 5%.

I agree with your conclusion and reasoning that it'll be because people are sick of politics and politicians. No one expected Brexit and it happened, for exactly the same reasons.

...Trump is currently 5/1 to become president on Betfair. I personally think that is a very, very attractive bet and I've made a decent bit on "novelties" betting in the past. I was very tempted to bet on "out" at Brexit but didn't because I was being optimistic and didn't think it would happen. I should have listened to my gut. I'll have money on Trump. Some consolation is better than nothing at all. Helen Wood won me the ŁŁŁ for my PS4 - maybe I can get my PS4Pro out of Trump .

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree with your conclusion and reasoning that it'll be because people are sick of politics and politicians. No one expected Brexit and it happened, for exactly the same reasons.

...Trump is currently 5/1 to become president on Betfair. I personally think that is a very, very attractive bet and I've made a decent bit on "novelties" betting in the past. I was very tempted to bet on "out" at Brexit but didn't because I was being optimistic and didn't think it would happen. I should have listened to my gut. I'll have money on Trump. Some consolation is better than nothing at all. Helen Wood won me the ŁŁŁ for my PS4 - maybe I can get my PS4Pro out of Trump .

Me and TS agreeing on something? Ha ha. And you definitely should get in on the betting action. You'll be rich.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Me and TS agreeing on something? Ha ha. And you definitely should get in on the betting action. You'll be rich.

yes, TS will be tremendously rich, so rich he will be able to contribute to the trump wall being built at all UK airports to keep him out

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree with your conclusion and reasoning that it'll be because people are sick of politics and politicians. No one expected Brexit and it happened, for exactly the same reasons.

...Trump is currently 5/1 to become president on Betfair. I personally think that is a very, very attractive bet and I've made a decent bit on "novelties" betting in the past. I was very tempted to bet on "out" at Brexit but didn't because I was being optimistic and didn't think it would happen. I should have listened to my gut. I'll have money on Trump. Some consolation is better than nothing at all. Helen Wood won me the ŁŁŁ for my PS4 - maybe I can get my PS4Pro out of Trump .

I think it's a smart bet.... you win either way. If Trump wins....you are in the UK and have a little coin in your pocket.... if he loses, the whole world breathes a collective sigh of relief....and you will think, best bet I ever lost

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Mokka

I think it's a smart bet.... you win either way. If Trump wins....you are in the UK and have a little coin in your pocket.... if he loses, the whole world breathes a collective sigh of relief....and you will think, best bet I ever lost

Well that was the Helen Wood logic! The only BB housemate I've ever hated, but I was so happy when she won .

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree with your conclusion and reasoning that it'll be because people are sick of politics and politicians. No one expected Brexit and it happened, for exactly the same reasons.

...Trump is currently 5/1 to become president on Betfair. I personally think that is a very, very attractive bet and I've made a decent bit on "novelties" betting in the past. I was very tempted to bet on "out" at Brexit but didn't because I was being optimistic and didn't think it would happen. I should have listened to my gut. I'll have money on Trump. Some consolation is better than nothing at all. Helen Wood won me the ŁŁŁ for my PS4 - maybe I can get my PS4Pro out of Trump .

Bet you never thought Helen Wood could give you so many hours of pleasure

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I always enjoy reading your posts (always polite) even when I might not agree with them. Right now, Americans are really, really bitter at Washington. And Americans generally like an underdog. Someone who fights. I've read one of his books and I've seen him with my own two eyes in person. He understands human psychology (at least in the US) in ways that few people seem to appreciate. Hillary has a problem in that she is not a very likable person. When the Clintons were in the White House a lot of people were sick of them. People who want to vote for someone will generally be more likely to go down to the polling station and vote than someone who wants to vote against someone. I really do think Trump is going to win and, to be honest, I don't even think it's going to be close. I think he'll win by at least 5%.

....hmmm, I've been thinking about what you say quite a bit this morning..about him understanding human psychology because I've never felt that from him, that he has..?...but what made me specifically think was all of his cries of rigging/media rigging/voting rigging etc...and on the surface it all sounds very churlish..?..but it's probably actually all calculated as part of his campaign to cry those things because as you say, Hilary is associated with a more corrupt establishment so cries of rigging and that being absorbed by the voters is all only going to increase his voting more in determination to beat the rigging..?.../so yeah huge human psychology...I'm still not convinced that he has a good understanding though, rather than his team do...he still feels a bit 'puppet' to me...

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....hmmm, I've been thinking about what you say quite a bit this morning..about him understanding human psychology because I've never felt that from him, that he has..?...but what made me specifically think was all of his cries of rigging/media rigging/voting rigging etc...and on the surface it all sounds very churlish..?..but it's probably actually all calculated as part of his campaign to cry those things because as you say, Hilary is associated with a more corrupt establishment so cries of rigging and that being absorbed by the voters is all only going to increase his voting more in determination to beat the rigging..?.../so yeah huge human psychology...I'm still not convinced that he has a good understanding though, rather than his team do...he still feels a bit 'puppet' to me...

I think he understands that this is an election where people want change in Washington and they are sorely tempted to vote for anyone who doesn't sound like a typical politician. It may surprise you but in American politics there actually was someone similar to Trump who successfully ran for governor of Minnesota. His name was Jesse Ventura and he came from entertainment (movies, wrestling) and he always played somewhat of a villain in his roles. He ran as an independent and when he gave speeches he deliberately didn't speak from a script or use a teleprompter. His speeches were not rehearsed and people felt he was authentic. Trump actually is friends with Jesse and, according to Jesse, Trump watched and learned from him how to campaign.

Even if the polls are right that Hillary has slightly more supporters than Trump, Trump has all of the enthusiasm. His supporters feel betrayed by the establishment and the media and they are angry. Watch this video of 20 thousand supporters booing the media representatives at a Trump ralley.

Youtube video

His people will go out and vote but it's not clear that Hillary's will. There actually are some rumors that the media is manipulating the polls (like sampling more democrats than republicans) and that the misleading polls are trying to make Trump supporters feel like there is no point in going to the polls because they lost.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This took up an unreasonable chunk of my afternoon... why have I made this.

I hope the kids got their dinner

Originally Posted by Ammi

....that's actually excellent....and just so that your many hours have been well spent, I think as it's mostly black and white, that I might print it off and do some copies for colouring at school during rainy play times...you could be on to something here TS...painting politics playtimes...

Encouraging the kids to draw moustaches on Nicola, how could you Ammi

[jet]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I don't think a lot of people on here understand the American mind. Americans despise politicians. And when someone comes along who is not a politician even if they are a little crude and rude they consider it to be a breath of fresh air. Just to give you a fair warning: on Nov 9th you may be in for a shock with who Americans pick to be president.

I fear you may be right. Trump's supporters are very rabid and they are going to make sure they get to the polling stations and take as many people as they can muster along with them, whereas his detractors might not even bother to vote for Clinton....
Then there is the fact that Clinton is a woman...I have read many many American opinions on that subject saying they have had a black man in the top job for long enough, they aren't now going to have a woman telling them what to do and next time around it will be gays in the White house. Depressing reading indeed.