[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There is NOTHING wrong at all in you posing that very legitimate question Cherie, nothing at all.

Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others.

None of us can state any more clearly or with such repetition that the vulnerable and wholly innocent little children SHOULD be rescued from those camps, and you personally could not state more clearly and passionately that it should be those same little children who should be the priority.

The rest of them - the adults - should NOT be take in by the UK for a variety of reasons:

a) They ARE adults.
b) They are NOT in any type of danger.
c) They have other perfectly safe and valid - and quite frankly generous and
charitable - ALTERNATIVE options.
d) Bringing them into the UK makes a total nonsense of the quite reasonable
'Immigrant Processing Procedures' which are already in place in the
numerous countries which these people have passed through - besides
France - which these people have deliberately spurned.
e) Bringing them into the UK is wholly unfair to those far less calculating and
far less devious immigrants who HAVE gone to such processing centres.
f) Bringing them into the UK is rewarding criminality and punishing
lawfulness.

In addition, where is the 'Humanitarian' crisis in the Calais Camps anyway????

The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.

The truth is that such media articles are edited to distort the truth about the camps and its residents, to show immigrants in a GOOD light and to grossly exaggerate conditions at the camps for adults - camps which those adult immigrants elected to build of theIr own free will in the first place rather than accept the many alternatives offered to them - BECAUSE Calais is very, very, strategically THE prime location for gaining access to the UK ILLEGALLY.

The truth is, that not ONCE has TV or newspapers EVER mentioned the Nightclubs, Restaurants, Shops, Gymnasiums, and other facilities at that camp - until the Sun did so recently.

Yes - they are temporarily constructed and comparatively spartan, but they WERE there, AND they WERE well patronised by the residents of the camp.

But let us ignore those facts, just as we ignore the fact that 80% of the residents of these camps were young, able bodied, MALE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS NOT refugees.

Like we ignore the fact, that most of the above sported expensive training shoes and casual wear, watches and latest mobile phones.

Like we can ignore the fact that it is irrefutably proven that some of these able-bodied, fit, young MALE Economic Migrants and would-be ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the UK, are posing as children to secure unfair ACCESS into the UK.

And just as we can ignore the fact, that the calculating scumbags are doing so AT THE EXPENSE OF GENUINE LITTLE CHILDREN.

Let's ignore EVERYTHING which does not fit in and support any 'bleedin' heart' views that there is a humanitarian crisis at Calais, and that 'Big Old Bad Britain' is full of dispassionate, inhumane, xenophobes and racists who DO NOT CARE.

Strip away the Sun hyperbole from the article below, and there still remains a very large solid kernel of truth which paints a very different picture of the 'Calais Camp' than that portryed in the media:


URBAN JUNGLE

Restaurants, boxing clubs and booming businesses… we go inside Calais’ sprawling migrant city. The Sun on Sunday visits the infamous camp as its population is set to reach 10,000.


LAKESIDE dining, gym sessions and massages are usually associated with luxury spas rather than refugee camps.

But the Jungle in Calais — housing some of the world’s most destitute migrants — is anything but a typical shelter.


Aerial view of a makeshift camp as containers (rear) are put into place to house migrants living in what is known as the "Jungle", a sprawling camp in Calais REUTERS

The Jungle in Calais has transformed into a city within a city

The infamous camp is full of economic activity, including restaurants, shops, bars and nightclubs

In the past year it has transformed into a city within a city, complete with its own shops, cafes – even nightclubs.

It is now so full of life and economic activity that it makes the average British high street look a little bleak.

The Sun on Sunday visited the infamous camp as aid groups warned that its population is set to reach 10,000 for the first time.

Despite the French government’s efforts to close down the Jungle, many still queue in a bid to sneak in to the UK.



Boxing club trainer Arsala Khan says: ‘It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do’



Sun reporter Graeme Culliford plays pool in the camp



Residents of the camp can even take part in a football tournament

When I visited two years ago, the illegal settlement close to the Calais ferry port was little more than a bunch of tents and open fires on rubbish-strewn wasteland.

But now it is a sophisticated hub that makes the British Army’s Camp Bastion in Afghanistan look small.

While there are bigger official refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey, this unauthorised sprawl filled with migrants from Africa and the Middle East is thought to be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day
With so many people waiting to hide inside the next truck that can take them to the promised land of Britain, criminal gangs and business entrepreneurs have seized the opportunity to make money.Ali Shan, 25, is the owner of the Three Idiots restaurant on a road known as Afghanistan Street. He spent £5,000 of his own money setting it up.

But by serving £2 curries to up to 100 customers a day, he has made more than enough to justify his investment.



Shops selling food, clothes, cigarettes and more do brisk



Our reporter gets some groceries at a stall

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants in the Jungle, with the number set to top 10,000 within days
Ali, from Pakistan, said: “It was a risk, but it has definitely been worth it. I could see there were lots of people here who wanted to buy good food so I spent my savings to buy everything we needed.

“The Jungle has changed so much since I got here — it just keeps growing. Life is better than it used to be and I think even more people will arrive in the years to come.”

One of Ali’s main rivals is the Sami restaurant just down the road.

It has the advantage of impressive lakeside views and customers can dine alfresco as they enjoy the summer weather.



At Sami’s restaurant, our reporter enjoyed a feast of chicken, salad, chips and bread for £3.50

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers while the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks

A man uses the washing facilities at the camp

For around £3.50, I got a feast of chicken, salad and chips served with naan bread by Ahmed, a white-uniformed waiter.

The 25-year-old, from Afghanistan, said business had been good until a recent crackdown by French police.

In broken English he said: “We spend 120 to 140 euros (£100 to £120) on food each week that we buy from Lidl. Our dishes all cost two euros so we have to sell a lot to make any money.

I am tired of trying to get to London so I think I’ll stay here
“This is a nice restaurant but the police hassle us as we do not have a licence to serve food.”

Barber Jan Mohammed, 21, is working nearby. He told us he does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give.


He said it was something to “keep me busy” while he waited to get to London.

But he added: “Now I am tired of trying so I think I will stay here.”


Jan Mohammed started a barbershop in the camp to keep him busy while he waited to get to London


Mohammed does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give
Arsala Khan, 27, the trainer at the Calais Jungle Boxing Club, has also decided to stay in France.

He said: “It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do.”

French cops were making their presence felt when we visited the Jungle last week.

They marched in large numbers down roads with names such as David Cameron Street.

But the many businesses selling everything from clothes to cigarettes were still doing brisk trade.

The ever-expanding Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents and embarrasses French authorities.


Schools offer English lessons and regular organised events
A student participates in an English workshop



Graffiti at the entrance to the camp reads ‘London calling’ and ‘Free Syria’

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants there, with the number set to top 10,000 within days.

But as the population booms, knife attacks, robberies and sexual assaults are a constant danger. Drinking and drug taking is endemic and at night a Wild West atmosphere takes hold.

Meanwhile, there are rumours of Muslim extremists holding meetings in darkened rooms. And there is great concern for the estimated 700 children who live alone in the rat-infested camp without any parents.

The camp has suffered E.coli outbreaks, and wildfires and disease are a constant risk.

Despite the police presence, charities trying to improve conditions, schools offering English lessons and regular organised events, walking around is unsettling.


The Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents
French cops make their presence felt

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers placed here by the government.

But the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks — some of them sporting fridges and satellite TVs.

Many folk are friendly. But there is a definite edge in the air as people question your intentions and warn you not to take any pictures.We encountered deep suspicion that we were working for the police.
Many of the estimated 72 business owners in the camp refused to talk, accusing us of being “spies”.

And a British volunteer told us: “Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day.

“There is a spot in the centre of town where people meet if they have disagreements to sort out.

“There is money to be made selling drugs and criminal gangs are eager to cash in.”




...Kirk I clarified to Cherie exactly what I meant that desensitisation to human beings is apparent with this because otherwise the situation now would not be happening and the crisis would never have reached crisis scenario...we all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions and we take our own ownership for those...no one is unfairly manoeuvring into a position of defensiveness, no one has the power to do that with a free thought or opinion of anyone else... what you feel and your thoughts are exactly that and no one is making or attempting to make you feel any differently...as I say, we take complete ownership of everything we feel and what our thoughts are...and there are many truths I should say in most things and everyone speaks their own truth...I have nothing more to add to the thread....

[Northern Monkey]

This crisis has reached crisis scenario because an awful lot of non refugees have paid people smugglers to bring them into Europe to try and get them into the UK.Its clear that the residents of The Jungle only travelled all the way through Europe to Calais to come to the UK.That's why it's there.The real regugees are stuck in refugee camps waiting for help while these economic migrants are slowing that whole process down.Also these adults posing as children are despicable when they know that there are actual children in there who are vulnerable.The real children need getting out of there and then our government needs to get on with helping the actual refugees in the real refugee camps.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...Kirk I clarified to Cherie exactly what I meant that desensitisation to human beings is apparent with this because otherwise the situation now would not be happening and the crisis would never have reached crisis scenario...we all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions and we take our own ownership for those...no one is unfairly manoeuvring into a position of defensiveness, no one has the power to do that with a free thought or opinion of anyone else... what you feel and your thoughts are exactly that and no one is making or attempting to make you feel any differently...as I say, we take complete ownership of everything we feel and what our thoughts are...and there are many truths I should say in most things and everyone speaks their own truth...I have nothing more to add to the thread....

Ammi - I do not know what is happening with us two, but if I had been addressing my post to you, I would have quoted you.

Though Cherie posed the question to you in reaction to a post by you, I did not have you in mind at all when I posted my response to her question.

My response to her and what followed was more in respect of other posts which have been on the thread before you even entered the 'debate'.

I saw your perfectly valid explanation to Cherie BEFORE I pressed to submit my post, but did NOT edit my post because there was no need, because in my mind I was not specifically referring to you nor addressing you in my response to Cherie.

If you believe that any of my critical comments were specifically addressed to you because they 'fitted' your own particular viewpoints, then that is at best coincidental, and at worst subliminal on my part.

I am only too aware that we 'all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions' and I just wish that certain others would remember that when it comes to taking undue and extreme umbrage at some of my thoughts and views.

I have never ever tried to browbeat anyone into changing their opinion, and - as my many comprehensive posts will attest - whether supporting a premise on here, or challenging it, I merely write with sincerity and passion about what I believe, and usually support my opinions with facts and figures in the true spirit of genuine debate.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

This crisis has reached crisis scenario because an awful lot of non refugees have paid people smugglers to bring them into Europe to try and get them into the UK.Its clear that the residents of The Jungle only travelled all the way through Europe to Calais to come to the UK.That's why it's there.The real refugees are stuck in refugee camps waiting for help while these economic migrants are slowing that whole process down.Also these adults posing as children are despicable when they know that there are actual children in there who are vulnerable.The real children need getting out of there and then our government needs to get on with helping the actual refugees in the real refugee camps.

EXACTLY - Well said Paul.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Ammi - I do not know what is happening with us two, but if I had been addressing my post to you, I would have quoted you.

Though Cherie posed the question to you in reaction to a post by you, I did not have you in mind at all when I posted my response to her question.

My response to her and what followed was more in respect of other posts which have been on the thread before you even entered the 'debate'.

I saw your perfectly valid explanation to Cherie BEFORE I pressed to submit my post, but did NOT edit my post because there was no need, because in my mind I was not specifically referring to you nor addressing you in my response to Cherie.

If you believe that any of my critical comments were specifically addressed to you because they 'fitted' your own particular viewpoints, then that is at best coincidental, and at worst subliminal on my part.

I am only too aware that we 'all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions' and I just wish that certain others would remember that when it comes to taking undue and extreme umbrage at some of my thoughts and views.

I have never ever tried to browbeat anyone into changing their opinion, and - as my many comprehensive posts will attest - whether supporting a premise on here, or challenging it, I merely write with sincerity and passion about what I believe, and usually support my opinions with facts and figures in the true spirit of genuine debate.

...(ok, most definitely last post in the thread ..)...nothing is happening to you and I Kirk....with respect you and I have no importance at all, only the migrants and refugees in Calais are of importance...we differ in our thoughts on many things and that's just as it is...and it really doesn't matter whether you were referring to my post or not even if it was quoting a response to my post...you have your truths on the migrant camp's dissolving in Calais and I have my truths and that's perfectly fine...but what isn't a truth my friend is that any opinions are attempted to be manoeuvred in any way or that there has been a cause for any defensive positions to be had...not anywhere in the thread...our thoughts/our opinions/our truths are our own and no one else has any control over them whatsoever... and that is the only truth in regards that...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...(ok, most definitely last post in the thread ..)...nothing is happening to you and I Kirk....with respect you and I have no importance at all, only the migrants and refugees in Calais are of importance...we differ in our thoughts on many things and that's just as it is...and it really doesn't matter whether you were referring to my post or not even if it was quoting a response to my post...you have your truths on the migrant camp's dissolving in Calais and I have my truths and that's perfectly fine...but what isn't a truth my friend is that any opinions are attempted to be manoeuvred in any way or that there has been a cause for any defensive positions to be had...not anywhere in the thread...our thoughts/our opinions/our truths are our own and no one else has any control over them whatsoever... and that is the only truth in regards that...

No problem Ammi, but I will stand by my claim which I have emboldened below, except I will clarify that I was not specifically referring to just this thread, but on many threads in Serious Debates - especially ones where the subject is 'Immigration'.

"Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others."

[Crimson Dynamo]

Agreed Kirk, look at the idiotic tweet made by Gary Linekar

So lazy to just play the race card

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No problem Ammi, but I will stand by my claim which I have emboldened below, except I will clarify that I was not specifically referring to just this thread, but on many threads in Serious Debates - especially ones where the subject is 'Immigration'.

"Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others."

...hawwww Kirk...it really doesn't matter...if there are problems/issues in SD...then to begin a post in the vein that you did directed at anyone in the thread, is only becoming part of the problems/issues...do you not see that...because it actually attacks rather than defends anyway..not that anything ever needed a defence because it didn't...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yes but the key here is the camp is not in the UK

It's a border... we have equal responsibility.
There are agreements made between countries, also we have a duty to aid both the people in the camps and the French, that is key here.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That's untrue I've heard a few radio interviews now where the agencies involved have been asked directly about the ages of the "children" brought over, where the question has been dodged and finally answered with 14 to 18 bracket, yet we are still told there are kids as young as 8 in the camp but seemlngly its okay to overlook an 8 year old so an 18 year old can get on the bus

So you say... But where is it, where is the documented rational, impartial, objective proof?

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There is NOTHING wrong at all in you posing that very legitimate question Cherie, nothing at all.

Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others.

None of us can state any more clearly or with such repetition that the vulnerable and wholly innocent little children SHOULD be rescued from those camps, and you personally could not state more clearly and passionately that it should be those same little children who should be the priority.

The rest of them - the adults - should NOT be take in by the UK for a variety of reasons:

a) They ARE adults.
b) They are NOT in any type of danger.
c) They have other perfectly safe and valid - and quite frankly generous and
charitable - ALTERNATIVE options.
d) Bringing them into the UK makes a total nonsense of the quite reasonable
'Immigrant Processing Procedures' which are already in place in the
numerous countries which these people have passed through - besides
France - which these people have deliberately spurned.
e) Bringing them into the UK is wholly unfair to those far less calculating and
far less devious immigrants who HAVE gone to such processing centres.
f) Bringing them into the UK is rewarding criminality and punishing
lawfulness.

In addition, where is the 'Humanitarian' crisis in the Calais Camps anyway????

The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.

The truth is that such media articles are edited to distort the truth about the camps and its residents, to show immigrants in a GOOD light and to grossly exaggerate conditions at the camps for adults - camps which those adult immigrants elected to build of theIr own free will in the first place rather than accept the many alternatives offered to them - BECAUSE Calais is very, very, strategically THE prime location for gaining access to the UK ILLEGALLY.

The truth is, that not ONCE has TV or newspapers EVER mentioned the Nightclubs, Restaurants, Shops, Gymnasiums, and other facilities at that camp - until the Sun did so recently.

Yes - they are temporarily constructed and comparatively spartan, but they WERE there, AND they WERE well patronised by the residents of the camp.

But let us ignore those facts, just as we ignore the fact that 80% of the residents of these camps were young, able bodied, MALE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS NOT refugees.

Like we ignore the fact, that most of the above sported expensive training shoes and casual wear, watches and latest mobile phones.

Like we can ignore the fact that it is irrefutably proven that some of these able-bodied, fit, young MALE Economic Migrants and would-be ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the UK, are posing as children to secure unfair ACCESS into the UK.

And just as we can ignore the fact, that the calculating scumbags are doing so AT THE EXPENSE OF GENUINE LITTLE CHILDREN.

Let's ignore EVERYTHING which does not fit in and support any 'bleedin' heart' views that there is a humanitarian crisis at Calais, and that 'Big Old Bad Britain' is full of dispassionate, inhumane, xenophobes and racists who DO NOT CARE.

Strip away the Sun hyperbole from the article below, and there still remains a very large solid kernel of truth which paints a very different picture of the 'Calais Camp' than that portryed in the media:


URBAN JUNGLE

Restaurants, boxing clubs and booming businesses… we go inside Calais’ sprawling migrant city. The Sun on Sunday visits the infamous camp as its population is set to reach 10,000.


LAKESIDE dining, gym sessions and massages are usually associated with luxury spas rather than refugee camps.

But the Jungle in Calais — housing some of the world’s most destitute migrants — is anything but a typical shelter.


Aerial view of a makeshift camp as containers (rear) are put into place to house migrants living in what is known as the "Jungle", a sprawling camp in Calais REUTERS

The Jungle in Calais has transformed into a city within a city

The infamous camp is full of economic activity, including restaurants, shops, bars and nightclubs

In the past year it has transformed into a city within a city, complete with its own shops, cafes – even nightclubs.

It is now so full of life and economic activity that it makes the average British high street look a little bleak.

The Sun on Sunday visited the infamous camp as aid groups warned that its population is set to reach 10,000 for the first time.

Despite the French government’s efforts to close down the Jungle, many still queue in a bid to sneak in to the UK.



Boxing club trainer Arsala Khan says: ‘It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do’



Sun reporter Graeme Culliford plays pool in the camp



Residents of the camp can even take part in a football tournament

When I visited two years ago, the illegal settlement close to the Calais ferry port was little more than a bunch of tents and open fires on rubbish-strewn wasteland.

But now it is a sophisticated hub that makes the British Army’s Camp Bastion in Afghanistan look small.

While there are bigger official refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey, this unauthorised sprawl filled with migrants from Africa and the Middle East is thought to be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day
With so many people waiting to hide inside the next truck that can take them to the promised land of Britain, criminal gangs and business entrepreneurs have seized the opportunity to make money.Ali Shan, 25, is the owner of the Three Idiots restaurant on a road known as Afghanistan Street. He spent £5,000 of his own money setting it up.

But by serving £2 curries to up to 100 customers a day, he has made more than enough to justify his investment.



Shops selling food, clothes, cigarettes and more do brisk



Our reporter gets some groceries at a stall

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants in the Jungle, with the number set to top 10,000 within days
Ali, from Pakistan, said: “It was a risk, but it has definitely been worth it. I could see there were lots of people here who wanted to buy good food so I spent my savings to buy everything we needed.

“The Jungle has changed so much since I got here — it just keeps growing. Life is better than it used to be and I think even more people will arrive in the years to come.”

One of Ali’s main rivals is the Sami restaurant just down the road.

It has the advantage of impressive lakeside views and customers can dine alfresco as they enjoy the summer weather.



At Sami’s restaurant, our reporter enjoyed a feast of chicken, salad, chips and bread for £3.50

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers while the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks

A man uses the washing facilities at the camp

For around £3.50, I got a feast of chicken, salad and chips served with naan bread by Ahmed, a white-uniformed waiter.

The 25-year-old, from Afghanistan, said business had been good until a recent crackdown by French police.

In broken English he said: “We spend 120 to 140 euros (£100 to £120) on food each week that we buy from Lidl. Our dishes all cost two euros so we have to sell a lot to make any money.

I am tired of trying to get to London so I think I’ll stay here
“This is a nice restaurant but the police hassle us as we do not have a licence to serve food.”

Barber Jan Mohammed, 21, is working nearby. He told us he does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give.


He said it was something to “keep me busy” while he waited to get to London.

But he added: “Now I am tired of trying so I think I will stay here.”


Jan Mohammed started a barbershop in the camp to keep him busy while he waited to get to London


Mohammed does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give
Arsala Khan, 27, the trainer at the Calais Jungle Boxing Club, has also decided to stay in France.

He said: “It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do.”

French cops were making their presence felt when we visited the Jungle last week.

They marched in large numbers down roads with names such as David Cameron Street.

But the many businesses selling everything from clothes to cigarettes were still doing brisk trade.

The ever-expanding Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents and embarrasses French authorities.


Schools offer English lessons and regular organised events
A student participates in an English workshop



Graffiti at the entrance to the camp reads ‘London calling’ and ‘Free Syria’

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants there, with the number set to top 10,000 within days.

But as the population booms, knife attacks, robberies and sexual assaults are a constant danger. Drinking and drug taking is endemic and at night a Wild West atmosphere takes hold.

Meanwhile, there are rumours of Muslim extremists holding meetings in darkened rooms. And there is great concern for the estimated 700 children who live alone in the rat-infested camp without any parents.

The camp has suffered E.coli outbreaks, and wildfires and disease are a constant risk.

Despite the police presence, charities trying to improve conditions, schools offering English lessons and regular organised events, walking around is unsettling.


The Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents
French cops make their presence felt

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers placed here by the government.

But the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks — some of them sporting fridges and satellite TVs.

Many folk are friendly. But there is a definite edge in the air as people question your intentions and warn you not to take any pictures.We encountered deep suspicion that we were working for the police.
Many of the estimated 72 business owners in the camp refused to talk, accusing us of being “spies”.

And a British volunteer told us: “Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day.

“There is a spot in the centre of town where people meet if they have disagreements to sort out.

“There is money to be made selling drugs and criminal gangs are eager to cash in.”




Excellent detailed post Kirk.

But I did notice that you left one thing out....
The WIFI charging Area. Where they can recharge their new apple iphones and ipads.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's a border... we have equal responsibility.
There are agreements made between countries, also we have a duty to aid both the people in the camps and the French, that is key here.

The UK were only allowed into the camp in the last week to locate the minors, where is the equality in that? the UK are contributing 39 million to help clear the camp, and relocate the migrants, as well as taking over half of the minors

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So you say... But where is it, where is the documented rational, impartial, objective proof?

Well you could say the same for your argument, where is your proof that the UK aren't doing their bit ?

[Kizzy]

'The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.'

My opinion is great, but it is just that, my opinion, not that it's ever been backed up with facts or anything....


https://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...migrants-story

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's a border... we have equal responsibility.
There are agreements made between countries, also we have a duty to aid both the people in the camps and the French, that is key here.

Its not on our side of the border though, so responsibility is not equal. We have no jurisdiction on French soil, and the illegal camp is on French soil, not UK soil.

I have to say, with winter approaching fast, if we are concerned about humanitarian issues, we should be looking at our homeless in the UK. They have far less protection, security and facilities available to them than the immigrants on French soil. We actually have no duty what so ever to look after anyone in the French camps.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Its not on our side of the border though, so responsibility is not equal. We have no jurisdiction on French soil, and the illegal camp is on French soil, not UK soil.

I have to say, with winter approaching fast, if we are concerned about humanitarian issues, we should be looking at our homeless in the UK. They have far less protection, security and facilities available to them than the immigrants on French soil. We actually have no duty what so ever to look after anyone in the French camps.

we have camps under the North Circular, who is helping them?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The UK were only allowed into the camp in the last week to locate the minors, where is the equality in that? the UK are contributing 39 million to help clear the camp, and relocate the migrants, as well as taking over half of the minors

Many charities involved (UK and French) have been well aware of the numbers and locations of the unaccompanied child refugees for a very long time Cherie.
I'm sorry but the 'our hand were tied' ' we didn't know' tack is transparent.
How many unaccompanied minors are there, how do you know we are taking over half of them?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Well you could say the same for your argument, where is your proof that the UK aren't doing their bit ?

My point was on the ages of the kids, it was that post you are responding to.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

My point was on the ages of the kids, it was that post you are responding to.

YOUR POINT WAS 'ON THE AGES OF THE KIDS'????

That is THE one point which is NOT in any doubt, if you are referring to those 20 and 30 somethings being paraded as CHILDREN by the idiotic and downright dangerous to this country 'bleeding heart' do-gooders, because the evidence is both preponderous and wholly convincing m'lud.

[kirklancaster]

I've been through all my atlas's and Geography text books and Googled, but I cannot find any border shared by France and England. Unless they've recategorised the English Channel as a border. I'd hate to be a squaddie on 'Border Patrol' though. All that treading water must get mighty tiring on the legs.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Many charities involved (UK and French) have been well aware of the numbers and locations of the unaccompanied child refugees for a very long time Cherie.
I'm sorry but the 'our hand were tied' ' we didn't know' tack is transparent.
How many unaccompanied minors are there, how do you know we are taking over half of them?

Because there is a census of sorts maybe we are taking more than half and the French have made up the numbers

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Because there is a census of sorts maybe we are taking more than half and the French have made up the numbers

Where is this census?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

YOUR POINT WAS 'ON THE AGES OF THE KIDS'????

That is THE one point which is NOT in any doubt, if you are referring to those 20 and 30 somethings being paraded as CHILDREN by the idiotic and downright dangerous to this country 'bleeding heart' do-gooders, because the evidence is both preponderous and wholly convincing m'lud.

Bleeding heart do gooders?... They were being paraded by our media having been brought over by our govt

[arista]

Starting to pull it apart
and bin it all.


http://news.sky.com/story/demolition...rance-10631988

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is this census?

Embed Feed Watch time-lapse footage of life jacket graveyard being created in Parliament Square IBTimes UK
More than 10,000 people now live in the so-called Calais Jungle migrant camp near the port of Calais access point to the Channel Tunnel, a new census has revealed.

Migrants, some fleeing war and poverty in the Middle East, Africa and Asia have amassed, in their thousands, on the French coast with the hope of making their way into the UK. But as the migrant crisis in the port continues, French authorities have been carrying out their strongest crackdown on migrants for five years, evicting, arresting, detaining or deporting migrants from France.

More from IBTimes UK
14-year-old Afghan refugee killed while attempting to board lorry to illegally enter UK from Calais
Four suspected smugglers arrested in Calais for selling dinghies to desperate migrants
Calais: Sudanese man becomes 11th victim of clashes between refugees from overcrowded camp
Which nationalities make up the most Jungle's population?

- Sudanese refugees: 43%

- Afghans: 33%

- Syrians and Iraqis (including Kurds): 1% each of the overall camp population

The population of the camp has risen above 10,000 for the first time, with the population now totalling 10,188 – according to a new census from L' Auberge des Migrants/ Help Refugees. This represents a 12% increase in the overall population since August.

The shocking new figures also reveal that the number of unaccompanied minors has increased by 51% month-on-month – bringing to 1,179 the number of underage youths in the camp, of which 87% are unaccompanied.

Of those surveyed for the census, 52% reported issues in receiving accommodation, including waits of up to 8 months to be offered even temporary shelter by local authorities, L' Auberge des Migrants/ Help Refugees said.