[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I am not trying to find offense I am pointing out how its just constant and obviously how a thread opening with a statement like that will immediately get peoples backs up...

ONLY for those looking to find and take offense. the left need to realise just because they play the PC card and choose to take offense, doesnt mean they are in fact right.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Corker indeed! The arrogance and closed-mindset is a good example.

yep that left wing poster labelled millions of people just as clinton labelled tens of millions as sexist racist islamophobic homophobic...typical cheap slander from the left

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

...

Would you like me to go through all posts made in this section pointing out which are insulting to many people? I was speaking generally, across this entire board. I thought I made it quite clear in my post that this is not an attack on either 'left' or 'right' and that both sides have people in the wrong

Just adding some balance.
'Insane liberal straight jacket' is an opinion on the state of the political landscape.
The post i quoted was an attack on anyone who thinks political correctness has gone too far.Implying that 'the ONLY people' who think PC has gone too far(many posters in this thread) are 'attempting to denigrate a subsection of society'.That is a bold and slanderous claim.
I Personally do not want to denigrate anybody.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

ONLY for those looking to find and take offense. the left need to realise just because they play the PC card and choose to take offense, doesnt mean they are in fact right.

Do you not see how holding all 'lefties' responsible for a few loons who scream (for example) racism at every opportunity is offensive?

Or put another way, would you find it offensive if ALL right leaning people were declared bigoted...or insane in an opening post? Actually I am sure I remember you kicking off (rightly) when some posters declared all UKIP voters racist. So I guess thats my question answered.

I think you just like to argue with me to be honest, especially given I am bloody agreeing with you on this topic anyway

[Vicky.]

You know what. **** it. I am still in the wrong even when I agree with people so whats the point. Carry on generalizing each other, moaning and constantly insulting each other. As you were..

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Indeed. I can see both sides of this. Not sure if this makes me just unbiased or more 'middle' than I thought Some left leaning people scream racism at anyone voicing concerns. Some right leaning people go the opposite way and blast anyone with a differing opinion as a 'loony lefty' or indeed..bleeding heart. Its ridiculous and people seem to just be able to see one or the other, when I (and you seemingly ammi...) see both.`

This has been a huge issue over the months especially in this section. Selective reading. It should be possible to have a debate without insulting or generalizing everyone. We used to be able to do that here anyway. SD is just a mess recently and it annoys me as this was one of my fave sections of the site, but now its the same repetitive garbage, insults and such over and over again and it is offputting to everyone really.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I don't disagree with what you say but people's definition on who exactly is a minority and the blurred lines on who exactly is being prejudice to whom is a minefield.

When some describe a group as being subject to prejudice, a group who themselves subject another group to prejudice' - things are clearly not as cut and dried as some make out.

...(sorry, I was making a thread and had to go to get dinner so I was a bit distracted there..)...but yeah, there really is no 'burred lines' with it at all in voicing opinions, concerns which are very relevant and valid...there will always be other perspectives to any opinions and any points..(especially on the more controversial topics..).. and all should equally be respected even if/when completely opposed to because opposing/differing opinions are really what debates are all about anyway... so we most definitely need them but we're all grown ups, we all know when we're being personal and we all create and are responsible for our own 'PC', no matter what any responses may be...because those responses aren't things that we can control but taking our own responsibilities for our own words and opinions etc..?.../nothing becomes blurred at all, it actually is the opposite and becomes clearer and easier to communicate ourselves...

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Do you not see how holding all 'lefties' responsible for a few loons who scream (for example) racism at every opportunity is offensive?

Or put another way, would you find it offensive if ALL right leaning people were declared bigoted...or insane in an opening post? Actually I am sure I remember you kicking off (rightly) when some posters declared all UKIP voters racist. So I guess thats my question answered.

I think you just like to argue with me to be honest, especially given I am bloody agreeing with you on this topic anyway

Political correctness was 100% an evil invention of the left

[Brillopad]

[QUOTE=Ammi;9057143]...(sorry, I was making a thread and had to go to get dinner so I was a bit distracted there..)...but yeah, there really is no 'burred lines' with it at all in voicing opinions, concerns which are very relevant and valid...there will always be other perspectives to any opinions and any points..(especially on the more controversial topics..).. and all should equally be respected even if/when completely opposed to because opposing/differing opinions are really what debates are all about anyway... so we most definitely need them but we're all grown ups, we all know when we're being personal and we all create and are responsible for our own 'PC', no matter what any responses may be...because those responses aren't things that we can control but taking our own responsibilities for our own words and opinions etc..?.../nothing becomes blurred at all, it actually is the opposite and becomes clearer and easier to communicate ourselves...[/QUO

I feel that many Western countries,including America And Britain, became too focused on being the 'Bigger person' (more civilised) and have hence become too fearful of criticising certain religious groups and their practices within their own borders.

As a result they have failed to address the bigotry and prejudice going on within those groups toward others whilst at the same time preaching tolerance and understanding to the rest of us. Those buying into that, likely for the same reason, add insult to injury by having the nerve to insult those less blind to these blatant double-standards.

It comes down to people wanting to feel 'better than that' which to me suggests insecurity. If intolerance is wrong then it is wrong for everyone. I do not believe in one rule for one person/group and another for others. We get taken for mugs - probably deservedly so.

Part of Trumps appeal was his refusal to play this game and his willingness to call a spade a spade. After all he doesn't NEED a political career or fame and fortune, he already has all those things, he can afford to speak his mind. Quite a refreshing change. At least we know where we are with him.

[the truth]

I think seeing the great bobby deniro stoop so low in the midst of the hollywood liberal mess was a real low for me. The mere fact the great man chose to try and highlight how bad trump was by being just as bad or worse, just highlighted what a mess we are really in.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I feel that many Western countries,including America And Britain, became too focused on being the 'Bigger person' (more civilised) and have hence become too fearful of criticising certain religious groups and their practices within their own borders.

As a result they have failed to address the bigotry and prejudice going on within those groups toward others whilst at the same time preaching tolerance and understanding to the rest of us. Those buying into that, likely for the same reason, add insult to injury by having the nerve to insult those less blind to these blatant double-standards.

It comes down to people wanting to feel 'better than that' which to me suggests insecurity. If intolerance is wrong then it is wrong for everyone. I do not believe in one rule for one person/group and another for others. We get taken for mugs - probably deservedly so.

...see that's where I close down a bit in debates../forum wise..(sorry..)...but yes I do agree that if wrong/then wrong both ways...'buying into' suggests gullibility and 'those less blind' suggests a feeling 'better than', which is what you seem to see as 'PC' .../I mean really the very thing exactly...and just not conducive to communication and opinions being heard as well as being spoken..

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by the truth

I think seeing the great bobby deniro stoop so low in the midst of the hollywood liberal mess was a real low for me. The mere fact the great man chose to try and highlight how bad trump was by being just as bad or worse, just highlighted what a mess we are really in.

He was on tv the other day and the presenter asked him if he would do what he said in the video and punch Donald Trump. He said... erm i can't now cos he's the president elect.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...see that's where I close down a bit in debates../forum wise..(sorry..)...but yes I do agree that if wrong/then wrong both ways...'buying into' suggests gullibility and 'those less blind' suggests a feeling 'better than', which is what you seem to see as 'PC' .../I mean really the very thing exactly...and just not conducive to communication and opinions being heard as well as being spoken..

Fair point! Poor choice of words maybe, but I think you know what I mean.

Although, some are more gullible than others - maybe because they simply want to believe this or maybe because some are less inclined to accept double standards, whatever the individual reasons I think the degree of political correctness in this country is stifling and has not done our country any favours.

The powers that be need to wake-up before its to late in my opinion.

[Withano]

You are honestly arguing for your own freedom of speech whilst suggesting that Lefts shouldn't write or speak the way that they do.

Your argument is ridiculous and terribly thought out.

[Shaun]

Long story short: no.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Fair point! Poor choice of words maybe, but I think you know what I mean.

Although, some are more gullible than others - maybe because they simply want to believe this or maybe because some are less inclined to accept double standards, whatever the individual reasons I think the degree of political correctness in this country is stifling and has not done our country any favours.

The powers that be need to wake-up before its to late in my opinion.

..there is double standards from everyone though because we're all human and we all evaluate on individual situations etc and factor many things into what our perspective is/dependant on the differences that we may allow for in one but not a similar thing because very few things are exactly the same thing...for instance, Trump is the result of..?...the result of PC and restricting voices so they build and build etc in their fears and worries about immigration for instance..?...but then, the voices of those who protested after the result because of their fears and worries of Trump as president in their country, were very much met with a ughhhhh, just get on with it and hush up.../so it's the same story and if that story is PC and PC has been the cause and the problem, then we're all PC so I just don't get the 'PC problem' at all..but the only answer to that is more tolerance basically and to allow people to express equally..(so long as it isn't hate filled/prejudice etc..)...

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Been dead for a while love

Youtube video

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..there is double standards from everyone though because we're all human and we all evaluate on individual situations etc and factor many things into what our perspective is/dependant on the differences that we may allow for in one but not a similar thing because very few things are exactly the same thing...for instance, Trump is the result of..?...the result of PC and restricting voices so they build and build etc in their fears and worries about immigration for instance..?...but then, the voices of those who protested after the result because of their fears and worries of Trump as president in their country, were very much met with a ughhhhh, just get on with it and hush up.../so it's the same story and if that story is PC and PC has been the cause and the problem, then we're all PC so I just don't get the 'PC problem' at all..but the only answer to that is more tolerance basically and to allow people to express equally..(so long as it isn't hate filled/prejudice etc..)...

The difference to me is that people voted for Trump, mainly out of frustration, in a fair election vote, a time we all get a chance to have our say, both Brexit and Trump.

There is always going to be a winning/losing side, so I think to many it seemed pointless to demonstrate afterwards. It felt that, especially after Ms Miller's successful attempt to interfere with Brexit, the Americans were trying their luck. Did they really think they could overturn an election result through demonstration. It was a democratic vote and if you believe in democracy you respect the result, whether it goes your way or not. I feel sure that had it gone the other way the Clinton supporters would have felt the same way.

It felt more like a massive tantrum than exercising free speech and having their say. After all they had just had their say.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Been dead for a while love

Youtube video

Omg that's insane

[Jack_]

As with most of his other stuff, there's a lot of truth to this:

Youtube video

This is a massive problem that the left needs to address. Western democracies are crying out for political upheavals because thirty years of neoliberalism and globalisation have failed so many communities and left them behind. The divide and rule rhetoric of the far right is succeeding because it is providing disenfranchised people with a means to explain their grievances. Rather than multinational corporations refusing to pay their taxes and bankers recklessly gambling with people's money, it's benefit scrounger Chantelle with her twelve kids down the street that's to blame for the drain on the economy. Rather than a lack of investment in the creation of secure jobs, it's the underpaid and exploited Polish immigrants who are taking your jobs. Rather than the government building more housing, it's Sanjeep and his Muslim buddies who are to blame for you not having somewhere to live. This nasty, divisive and false discourse that absolves the elites of any responsibility is working and will continue to until the left pick themselves up and put together a coherent alternative which resonates with these people and addresses their very real concerns with the actual answers.

Brushing off hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised people as 'racist' and 'sexist' (even though these will account for some of the Trump and Brexit voters) is reductionist nonsense that only seeks to push people away further. You don't win a debate by shutting people down. The bottom line of all this is that the Democrats picked the wrong candidate in a political climate that was quite clearly tired of establishment dynasties that represent more of the same.

All that said, there's also a lot of truth to some of the points raised in this thread. 'PC gone mad!!!!' is often translated as 'wah wah wah my outdated opinion isn't considered acceptable anymore, why won't people agree with me '. As others have said, freedom of speech (much like democracy) works two ways. You are entitled to say what you like, but others are free to criticise what you said. Freedom of speech is not equal to 'freedom to say what I like and no one can challenge me'.

Finally, it's also worth pointing out for the umpteenth time that Hillary ****ing Clinton of all people does not represent 'the left', nor does any genuine lefty support 'corporate takeovers' or illegal wars. Such depictions are completely misguided.

[Jamie89]

But I suppose I'd be a loony lefty throwing around buzzwords and pandering to PC if I called that man a racist

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The difference to me is that people voted for Trump, mainly out of frustration, in a fair election vote, a time we all get a chance to have our say, both Brexit and Trump.

There is always going to be a winning/losing side, so I think to many it seemed pointless to demonstrate afterwards. It felt that, especially after Ms Miller's successful attempt to interfere with Brexit, the Americans were trying their luck. Did they really think they could overturn an election result through demonstration. It was a democratic vote and if you believe in democracy you respect the result, whether it goes your way or not. I feel sure that had it gone the other way the Clinton supporters would have felt the same way.

It felt more like a massive tantrum than exercising free speech and having their say. After all they had just had their say.

..no of course not but there was a need to express worries and concerns and also discontent and isn't that what is just being said is the cause, that people have felt stifled and so that's led to extreme frustration...it was a peaceful protest/just a need to have a voice heard...and in both cases there is also a large percentage of population of voters that were extremely disappointed.../Hilary being the popular vote and the higher amount of votes and Brexit being almost 50/50...so a huge amount of concerns and a huge amount of worries and a huge amount of discontent/much the same as people have talked about with the immigration situation and what is being said that those voices should be allowed their release so if that's the believe that PC has restricted that then it's also advocating a silencing in other situations so being PC itself..neither being double standard or both being double standard equally... and if it's believed that 'pc' is the problem to solve or ever has been then it's nowhere near being solved as the 'evil political correctness'...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Jack_

As with most of his other stuff, there's a lot of truth to this:

Youtube video

This is a massive problem that the left needs to address. Western democracies are crying out for political upheavals because thirty years of neoliberalism and globalisation have failed so many communities and left them behind. The divide and rule rhetoric of the far right is succeeding because it is providing disenfranchised people with a means to explain their grievances. Rather than multinational corporations refusing to pay their taxes and bankers recklessly gambling with people's money, it's benefit scrounger Chantelle with her twelve kids down the street that's to blame for the drain on the economy. Rather than a lack of investment in the creation of secure jobs, it's the underpaid and exploited Polish immigrants who are taking your jobs. Rather than the government building more housing, it's Sanjeep and his Muslim buddies who are to blame for you not having somewhere to live. This nasty, divisive and false discourse that absolves the elites of any responsibility is working and will continue to until the left pick themselves up and put together a coherent alternative which resonates with these people and addresses their very real concerns with the actual answers.

Brushing off hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised people as 'racist' and 'sexist' (even though these will account for some of the Trump and Brexit voters) is reductionist nonsense that only seeks to push people away further. You don't win a debate by shutting people down. The bottom line of all this is that the Democrats picked the wrong candidate in a political climate that was quite clearly tired of establishment dynasties that represent more of the same.

All that said, there's also a lot of truth to some of the points raised in this thread. 'PC gone mad!!!!' is often translated as 'wah wah wah my outdated opinion isn't considered acceptable anymore, why won't people agree with me '. As others have said, freedom of speech (much like democracy) works two ways. You are entitled to say what you like, but others are free to criticise what you said. Freedom of speech is not equal to 'freedom to say what I like and no one can challenge me'.

Finally, it's also worth pointing out for the umpteenth time that Hillary ****ing Clinton of all people does not represent 'the left', nor does any genuine lefty support 'corporate takeovers' or illegal wars. Such depictions are completely misguided.

What a cracking post and great video

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Been dead for a while love

Youtube video

That guy's a disgrace.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

But I suppose I'd be a loony lefty throwing around buzzwords and pandering to PC if I called that man a racist

That guy is without doubt 100% racist.I must be loony left too then

[the truth]

yes he's a racist