[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Kizzy 3 of them from Saudi Arabia
saving OUR lives

Ah right, we have justified selling arms to Saudi as they have been said to share intelligence?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

Ah right, we have justified selling arms to Saudi as they have been said to share intelligence?

Yes we will keep selling arms to them
British workers jobs on the line with
Left Wingers

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes we will keep selling arms to them
British workers jobs on the line with
Left Wingers

I take it that you're aware of our part in the Yemen crisis?

Whilst our charities desperately try to get funds off the British public to help the starving, both U.S and British arms dealers have reaped billions of dollars selling weapons to Saudi Arabia.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I take it that you're aware of our part in the Yemen crisis?

Whilst our charities desperately try to get funds off the British public to help the starving, both U.S and British arms dealers have reaped billions of dollars selling weapons to Saudi Arabia.

Why is it always our fault, people always trying to lay a guilt rip on the good old British public. We can't help everyone and we have enough problems of our own - I don't think younger people really understand the extent of the crises in the hospitals and social care because these are usually issues more likely to affect people as they get older and as their parents become in need of a lot of care.

They are full of idealism about helping others in need without appreciating just how many people here need help. We need to cut our overseas budget to help our own and should not feel guilty about it, never mind being made to feel guilty about giving even more to charities. The world's problems are not our responsibility. We do help, a lot, but there comes a point ....

[arista]

Yes DR
"I take it that you're aware of our part in the Yemen crisis?"

I am FULLY aware
but we do not Fire any weapons
we just Sell them.

That Yemen civil war
is not even on USA News , much.

So its a proxy war
Saudi - Iran.
like Boris said.


I know someone who works in the UK Factory.
Her Job is on the line
because of Fecking Left Wingers (trouble makers)

The Cogs are Turning

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why is it always our fault, people always trying to lay a guilt rip on the good old British public. We can't help everyone and we have enough problems of our own - I don't think younger people really understand the extent of the crises in the hospitals and social care because these are usually issues more likely to affect people as they get older and as their parents become in need of a lot of care.

They are full of idealism about helping others in need without appreciating just how many people here need help. We need to cut our overseas budget to help our own and should not feel guilty about it, never mind being made to feel guilty about giving even more to charities. The world's problems are not our responsibility. We do help, a lot, but there comes a point ....

Here's a trick that might help you. Address what I actually write--don't change any of it. Don't pretend that I wrote something slightly different because that's more convenient. Stick to the logical implications, not the speculative exaggerations.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes DR
"I take it that you're aware of our part in the Yemen crisis?"

I am FULLY aware
but we do not Fire any weapons
we just Sell them.

That Yemen civil war
is not even on USA News , much.

So its a proxy war
Saudi - Iran.
like Boris said.


I know someone who works in the UK Factory.
Her Job is on the line
because of Fecking Left Wingers (trouble makers)

The Cogs are Turning

OMG, you mean someone's trying to stop the weapons factory sending weapons to Saudi? How awful Arista, just befor Xmas too.

[Livia]

The people selling the arms aren't responsible for pulling the trigger. Unless your understanding of warfare is a little skewed. The people responsible for the killings and those DOING the killings.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why is it always our fault, people always trying to lay a guilt rip on the good old British public. We can't help everyone and we have enough problems of our own - I don't think younger people really understand the extent of the crises in the hospitals and social care because these are usually issues more likely to affect people as they get older and as their parents become in need of a lot of care.

They are full of idealism about helping others in need without appreciating just how many people here need help. We need to cut our overseas budget to help our own and should not feel guilty about it, never mind being made to feel guilty about giving even more to charities. The world's problems are not our responsibility. We do help, a lot, but there comes a point ....

And so it will always be, Brillo. There is so much hatred and shame for Britain on this forum.

[DemolitionRed]

If we arm one side of a war then we support that side… simple as. If we arm a country like Saudi which has violated international humanitarian law both in Yemen and Syria (by arming ISIS,) then we have to take some responsibility for the 10,000 lives lost and the thousands now dying from disease and starvation. If you don't get that, then I feel sorry for you.

Sighs...seriously, what has any of this got to do with hating Britain?

I don't want Britain to aid the war on Yemen= I hate Britain

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

If we arm one side of a war then we support that side… simple as. If we arm a country like Saudi which has violated international humanitarian law both in Yemen and Syria (by arming ISIS,) then we have to take some responsibility for the 10,000 lives lost and the thousands now dying from disease and starvation. If you don't get that, then I feel sorry for you.

Sigh...seriously, what has any of this got to do with hating Britain?

I don't want Britain to aid the war on Yemen= I hate Britain

Doing business with a country does not mean you support them. France sold Argentina the Exocet missile during the Falklands conflict, missiles which killed some of our troops. Does that mean that they support Argentina and are no longer our ally? And are we going to hear you moan about France for that, and hold them accountable for the war? No of course not. And if you don't get that, it is I who feel sorry for you.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Livia

And so it will always be, Brillo. There is so much hatred and shame for Britain on this forum.

I agree and it's very frustrating. Britain has a lot to be proud of - hence why so many want to come here. People should appreciate the opportunities this country offers them - it is up to them what they make of those opportunities.

Personally I think a lot is based on ignorance and jealousy. A small little island that has always stood its ground when faced with conflict and moved with the times in things like freedom and democracy. Human beings will never be perfect but this little country and what it represents is up there with the best of them in my opinion.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The people selling the arms aren't responsible for pulling the trigger. Unless your understanding of warfare is a little skewed. The people responsible for the killings and those DOING the killings.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedoc...08675r2en8.pdf


We have a responsibility as an EU member, (we are still in the EU) as such whoever is pulling the trigger becomes irrelevant.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedoc...08675r2en8.pdf


We have a responsibility as an EU member, (we are still in the EU) as such whoever is pulling the trigger becomes irrelevant.

We agree, it's been a while

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedoc...08675r2en8.pdf


We have a responsibility as an EU member, (we are still in the EU) as such whoever is pulling the trigger becomes irrelevant.

We have no responsibility to the EU in this case. The EU voted for an arms embargo... but it is not legally binding so neither the UK nor the EU has a valid embargo against Saudi.

[empire]

the politicians in this country and in europe, and the level of arrogance that these f''kwits tell there fellow citizens that we have to abide by there laws, culture and norms, and even the beliefs of these guys who just arrive in the west, and I heard that one thousand muslims marched in a very posh area of london demanding that the city be a caliphate, and I bet the rich folks will change there tune after these guys walked past there street, I think people in this country and in europe don't want to admit it, but we are already in a ethnic and religious war,

[T*]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

Way to justify more armed officers....It's for your protection.
#militia

erm

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

We have no responsibility to the EU in this case. The EU voted for an arms embargo... but it is not legally binding so neither the UK nor the EU has a valid embargo against Saudi.

Nope, we are just in violation.

'While the European Parliament has a rather limited role in EU foreign policy, by calling EU Member States to order over their arms transfer practices it has demonstrated a welcome commitment to scrutinising the implementation of the EU Common Position on arms exports. And although the Common Position notes that “the decision to transfer or deny the transfer of any military technology or equipment shall remain at the national discretion of each Member State”, it creates a legal obligation on Member States to ensure the conformity of their national policies with its provisions (see Article 29 of the Treaty on European Union).

Therefore, while some EU Member States have supplied and continue to authorise arms transfers to Saudi Arabia and coalition countries that are at risk of being used in the conflict, the EP Resolution recognises that “such transfers are in violation of [EU] Common Position 2008/944/CFSP on arms export control, which explicitly rules out the authorising of arms licences by Member States if there is a clear risk that the military technology or equipment to be exported might be used to commit serious violations of international humanitarian law and to undermine regional peace, security and stability.”

In addition, the Resolution’s call for the establishment of an EU arms embargo was supported by a majority of Members of the European Parliament (359 voted in favour, 212 against and 31 abstained) and received significant cross-party and cross-country backing, in spite of intense Saudi lobbying against the resolution.'

http://www.saferworld.org.uk/news-an...rabia-now-what

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

Nope, we are just in violation.

'While the European Parliament has a rather limited role in EU foreign policy, by calling EU Member States to order over their arms transfer practices it has demonstrated a welcome commitment to scrutinising the implementation of the EU Common Position on arms exports. And although the Common Position notes that “the decision to transfer or deny the transfer of any military technology or equipment shall remain at the national discretion of each Member State”, it creates a legal obligation on Member States to ensure the conformity of their national policies with its provisions (see Article 29 of the Treaty on European Union).

Therefore, while some EU Member States have supplied and continue to authorise arms transfers to Saudi Arabia and coalition countries that are at risk of being used in the conflict, the EP Resolution recognises that “such transfers are in violation of [EU] Common Position 2008/944/CFSP on arms export control, which explicitly rules out the authorising of arms licences by Member States if there is a clear risk that the military technology or equipment to be exported might be used to commit serious violations of international humanitarian law and to undermine regional peace, security and stability.”

In addition, the Resolution’s call for the establishment of an EU arms embargo was supported by a majority of Members of the European Parliament (359 voted in favour, 212 against and 31 abstained) and received significant cross-party and cross-country backing, in spite of intense Saudi lobbying against the resolution.'

http://www.saferworld.org.uk/news-an...rabia-now-what

Its doubtful that many on here will be interested in that nice little snippet of information.

Sighs... did you only research this because you hate Britain? !!

[Kizzy]

We can't live in our colonialist bubbles forever can we? I am fiercely proud of our anti establishment, civil liberty, social justice heritage that is what makes me proud to be British, no matter what anyone says it is not in our nature to roll over.
The only thing great about Britain and of course the rest of the UK is the will of the people,
this is what I feel is under the greatest threat.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

We can't live in our colonialist bubbles forever can we? I am fiercely proud of our anti establishment, civil liberty, social justice heritage that is what makes me proud to be British, no matter what anyone says it is not in our nature to roll over.
The only thing great about Britain and of course the rest of the UK is the will of the people,
this is what I feel is under the greatest threat.

The will of the people is Brexit but you seem keen for someone to put a spanner in the works on that.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

We can't live in our colonialist bubbles forever can we? I am fiercely proud of our anti establishment, civil liberty, social justice heritage that is what makes me proud to be British, no matter what anyone says it is not in our nature to roll over.
The only thing great about Britain and of course the rest of the UK is the will of the people,
this is what I feel is under the greatest threat.

Brillowpad

The will of the people is Brexit but you seem keen for someone to put a spanner in the works on that.

The will of just over half the population (including me) is Brexit but lets remember that nearly half "the people" were against it.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The will of just over half the population (including me) is Brexit but lets remember that nearly half "the people" were against it.

That's how the voting system works, and it was about another million more. In any public vote those with less votes have to accept defeat and make the best of it. Everyone can't get what they want, someone has to lose. Constantly whinging and moaning about it doesn't reflect well on the losing side.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Merry Corbynmas

Suddenly Europe is de rigueur?

We obviously don't need them, they would take valuable funds away from counter terrorist intelligence units as well as being ineffective unless the incident happened right in front of them.

And if that one incident saves lives is is worth it.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Both the gendarmerie and the municipal police have a choice of carrying arms and in big cities most of them are expected to.

A visible armed police force won’t or at least shouldn’t settle the nerves of the anxious public because when you look at it logically, no amount of armed police are going to stop someone walking down any high street or through any busy shopping center and blowing themselves up. The chances are, they will kill as many police officers as possible.

I have to disagree with you. Armed police would have a good chance of eliminating a suspect before they detonate a bomb so I think they do have a place.

I don't think it's appropriate for some of the comments I've read here about a police state blah blah. No one is perfect but our security forces put their lives on the line for us. They deserve our respect and support. Putting on a uniform can be like painting a target on yourself. They are very brave.