[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And you're not a Muslim either and yet you seem to be very keyed up about how all Muslims think and behave.

Because I happen to be one of the 50% they hate so much. Pretty relieved that as a woman I wasn't born in a Muslim country. There is an important principle at stake and the treatment of women by this religion should neither be ignored or defended.

I am surprised that you are surprised by that.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Because I happen to be one of the 50% they hate so much. Pretty relieved that as a woman I wasn't born in a Muslim country. There is an important principle at stake and the treatment of women by this religion should neither be ignored or defended.

I am surprised that you are surprised by that.

But they don't. The trouble is, you would have to live amongst them to understand just how wrong you are. I lived in the middle east. I worked with Muslims, I spoke their language, I cooked for and dined with Muslims and some of my long term dearest friends are Muslims. What I learnt is, most Muslims are no more religious than we are Christians. Whilst they are Muslim by name, many don't pray, go to the mosque or refrain from drinking alcohol and so on.

You can only recognise a Muslim woman by what she wears and yet you probably pass hundreds of Muslim women each day that don't wear hijab. They still consider themselves to be Muslim but have chosen not to wear a dress code because just like us Christians, religion doesn't play a big part in their life.

The one thing that struck me during my time there was how the men treasured the women and how the women ruled the home. I lived in Iran, a country where the religious police, mullah's and the revolutionary guards ruled over the land with an iron fist. I had many conversations with Muslim men who didn't want their wives, mothers and sisters to be so repressed and down trodden by their much hated repressive government.

I walked in their shoes and it didn't feel very religious at all. Most of them are just like you and me. Some bossed their husbands around whilst others were devoted couples but be sure of this, if a neighbourhood found a man was beating his wife, his sister or daughters, he would be ostracized and condemned by an entire community.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But they don't. The trouble is, you would have to live amongst them to understand just how wrong you are. I lived in the middle east. I worked with Muslims, I spoke their language, I cooked for and dined with Muslims and some of my long term dearest friends are Muslims. What I learnt is, most Muslims are no more religious than we are Christians. Whilst they are Muslim by name, many don't pray, go to the mosque or refrain from drinking alcohol and so on.

You can only recognise a Muslim woman by what she wears and yet you probably pass hundreds of Muslim women each day that don't wear hijab. They still consider themselves to be Muslim but have chosen not to wear a dress code because just like us Christians, religion doesn't play a big part in their life.

The one thing that struck me during my time there was how the men treasured the women and how the women ruled the home. I lived in Iran, a country where the religious police, mullah's and the revolutionary guards ruled over the land with an iron fist. I had many conversations with Muslim men who didn't want their wives, mothers and sisters to be so repressed and down trodden by their much hated repressive government.

I walked in their shoes and it didn't feel very religious at all. Most of them are just like you and me. Some bossed their husbands around whilst others were devoted couples but be sure of this, if a neighbourhood found a man was beating his wife, his sister or daughters, he would be ostracized and condemned by an entire community.

That is an interesting post and one I have no doubt you completely feel. I can't help but wonder though if your experience is truly representative of the majority of Muslims coming to the West. It may well be. But I am scepticle based on what I see around me on an almost daily basis.

I see an increasing number of Muslim women wearing burkas on our streets and beaches and whether it is worn as the woman's choice (something I find questionable due to indoctrination) or a requirement by her family I think it is an offensive thing to do in a country where female equality is not only valued but written into our equality laws.

I strongly believe if you choose to live in a country you must integrate and respect its culture and laws which many of the Muslims I see do not do. Maybe the Muslims you speak of are in the majority but if that is the case my issues are with those that are not and I believe these Muslims should not be welcomed into the West.

I also feel that certain conditions should be enforced such as the banning of religious clothing or other practices that praise the subjugation of women in public. I'm sure if anyone else walked around in teeshirts etc with words/ logos blatantly offensive to Muslims, any other religious group or gays, it would be classed as a hate crime and not tolerated - but somehow when the equality of those being undermined are only women they are expected to put up with it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That is an interesting post and one I have no doubt you completely feel. I can't help but wonder though if your experience is truly representative of the majority of Muslims coming to the West. It may well be. But I am scepticle based on what I see around me on an almost daily basis.

I see an increasing number of Muslim women wearing burkas on our streets and beaches and whether it is worn as the woman's choice (something I find questionable due to indoctrination) or a requirement by her family I think it is an offensive thing to do in a country where female equality is not only valued but written into our equality laws.

I strongly believe if you choose to live in a country you must integrate and respect its culture and laws which many of the Muslims I see do not do. Maybe the Muslims you speak of are in the majority but if that is the case my issues are with those that are not and I believe these Muslims should not be welcomed into the West.

I also feel that certain conditions such as banning religous clothing that praises the subjugation of women should not be allowed in public. I'm sure if anyone walked around in teeshirts with words/ logos blatantly offensive to Muslims, any other religious group or gays would not be tolerated - but somehow when the equality of those being undermined are only women they are expected to put up with it.

Are you offended by saris or are you offended by a Christian woman wearing a headscarf or a nun a habit? Does it annoy you when you see an Orthodox Jewish woman cover her hair with a tichel or her husband wearing a shtreimel.

We live in a democracy which makes us wonderfully tolerant.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Are you offended by saris or are you offended by a Christian woman wearing a headscarf or a nun a habit? Does it annoy you when you see an Orthodox Jewish woman cover her hair with a tichel or her husband wearing a shtreimel.

We live in a democracy which makes us wonderfully tolerant.

Except for Muslim tolerance of female equality.

Besides both Brexit and the Election of Trump prove that many people are not as tolerant as some would have us believe as many feel that tolerance is being abused.