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Niamh. · 29-03-2017, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

We will have to wait for Niamh to expire as well she is not from the Rebel County for nothing

Once we get our Independence from Dublin, we'll let it go

Kizzy · 29-03-2017, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think you can say its "not about anything"

many families will have had people killed by both sides during the troubles, and going back further by the the black and tans, and going back further by the English letting people literally die during the famine.. yes for some people it might be about nothing but only if they have no family history. It is time to put it aside, and move forward that said though some people are still very angry about what happened during the troubles as evidenced by the Martin McGuinness thread and are not ready to put it aside and it is easy for me to say because I didn't lose anyone in the troubles, my Great Grand Uncle was killed by the black and tans and is remembered on a monument in my home town and I still remember my grandmother his sister telling me stories about it. I expect by the time the generations who were involved in the troubles die out and as long as there is no repeat, then in two generations time people might be ready to move on?

Thank you Cherie, that is what I was trying to reference in that thread with the 'where did it start , where will it end' comment meant just that there is still a lot of anger.

Cherie · 29-03-2017, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Once we get our Independence from Dublin, we'll let it go

Up the rebels

Cherie · 29-03-2017, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thank you Cherie, that is what I was trying to reference in that thread with the 'where did it start , where will it end' comment meant just that there is still a lot of anger.

You are welcome.

Kizzy · 29-03-2017, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Kizzy the ill feeling is because Ireland was split in two and half the people wanted a unified Ireland and the other "British" half did not. The Orange men are just a way to show how British they are. There were actually Protestants who were in the IRA so that alone blows the theory of it being a religious war out of the water

There was only a British half as they were flooded in to choke off the threat of a catholic uprising from Spain using Ireland as a channel to England weren't they initially?

Niamh. · 29-03-2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There was only a British half as they were flooded in to choke off the threat of a catholic uprising from Spain using Ireland as a channel to England weren't they initially?

It doesn't matter why they were there, they were there and that's not what the troubles in NI were about, it was about nationality and civil rights

Cherie · 29-03-2017, 11:19 AM

also coming back to the point about "it being about nothing" every July, many families come south to avoid the Orange Men marching season, as the atmosphere is so intimidating, so even though there are "no troubles" as such, though to listen to someone from NI on the radio this morning there is still a lot going on that doesn't get reported in the rest of the UK ,there are still things going on that affect families and life in NI

Kizzy · 29-03-2017, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It doesn't matter why they were there, they were there and that's not what the troubles in NI were about, it was about nationality and civil rights

It does matter in the context of the debate, now it is about nationality and civil rights but historically it was a holy war.

Niamh. · 29-03-2017, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It does matter in the context of the debate, now it is about nationality and civil rights but historically it was a holy war.

The troubles in Northern Ireland were not historically a holy war though. the reason for more British to be in NI than the rest of Ireland may have been but not the reason why the troubles started and not the reason there was a division between the two communities.

Kizzy · 29-03-2017, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The troubles in Northern Ireland were not historically a holy war though. the reason for more British to be in NI than the rest of Ireland may have been but not the reason why the troubles started and not the reason there was a division between the two communities.

Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Niamh.

Kazanne · 29-03-2017, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Veggie? VEGGIE? You scrape that into the dustbin and get yourself a proper curry missy.

LOL, you should try one Marsh,they are yummy,and no frolicking little lamb died for it

Kizzy · 29-03-2017, 12:16 PM

Isn't chicken curry our national dish?

Niamh. · 29-03-2017, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Niamh.

I agree we should agree to disagree

jet · 29-03-2017, 04:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The issue spills over into Scotland quite a bit and I would say, certainly here at least, that it is 90% "Tribal" and has nothing to do with the actual religion. It centers heavily around Rangers/Celtic, if anything. If you asked anyone "involved" in the ... bickering ... then they would certainly say it's about Catholics and Protestants (although they would use less polite terms) but if you dig a little deeper, most of them don't follow anything religious at all. I'd say it's often more simple than being about ANY religious or political ideology of any kind... it's simply "two sides" who have been at each other's throats for centuries and pass the inherited mutual prejudice along family lines. It's not "about" anything. They hate each other 'cos they hate each other.

That's close to it TS. I was born in and have lived most of my life in N Ireland, in and around Belfast (I'm living in Dublin at the moment) and those 'sides' are a traditional thing. It just 'is'. When I was growing up most of us didn't know 'why'. We Catholics had some idea, we were taught a little Irish history in school but the Protestants had no idea, they only learned about British history. However, both sides got along just fine. Catholics would take their kids along to the see the Orangemen Parade on the 12th of July, it was a great day out. The troubles changed all that.
It was the 'hardliners' on both sides who created the Troubles. Civil rights? As a Catholic I never felt hard done by. I had the same civil rights as the Prods did. It was more of a social problem back then. Many Catholics standard of living wasn't as good as Protestants, but truth be told, that was because many had big families, many with more than 8 children, some with as many as 15 (there were 4 of us) while the Protestants usually had no more than 2 or 3, so they were stretched.
The size of Catholic families caused problems right across the board; in education, in housing, in employment etc. There were separate schools for each religion (many Catholics and Protestants lived in separate areas) in some cases employers hired according to religion too. There just weren't council houses big enough or enough jobs to go around. This created some poverty in certain areas in the bigger cities although there was always 'social security' for those in dire need. No - one was ever in any danger of starving, far from it in fact. Everyone, regardless of religion got free milk and free vitamins for every child up to 5 years old back then.
Then there is the United Ireland question. Again, it is the hardliners who caused the trouble here. The UK subsidise N. Ireland to the tune of 2 billion every year. The standard of living here is very good...so the devil you know and all that. The Republican government doesn't want us, and they could ill afford us. If they had us, their residents would pay for us with much higher taxes.The British don't really want us either. We're pesky.
In my experience, the average Catholic doesn't really want a U Ireland, they have it too good with all the free health care and dental care and free prescriptions and social security benefits. The average Protestant obviously doesn't want it but aren't that fond of the British and don't call themselves British. Most of them identify as Northern Irish. In an ideal world, with a great economy of our own, I'd say both sides would vote to be an independent country...no UK, no Republic.
....and the average Catholics and Protestants really don't hate each other. Even during the troubles, most people from both sides managed to keep long standing friendships intact and were disgusted with the violence.
It was the hardliners and those who they brainwashed/recruited that caused the mayhem and destruction.
And I'm proud to say that it has been noted many times over that N.Ireland is one of the friendliest ever places in Europe to visit. And it's beautiful too. The average Catholic and Protestant are still getting along just fine. Come and see for yourself.

DemolitionRed · 29-03-2017, 04:25 PM

Jet... Thanks. I really enjoyed your insightful post.

Marsh. · 29-03-2017, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I felt the tone was Christians integrate better than other religions, I don't believe they do. I was highlighting this, hope this explains my view to your satisfaction.

Who suggested that though?

Nobody did.

jet · 29-03-2017, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Jet... Thanks. I really enjoyed your insightful post.

Thank you.

So much nonsense is written about N.Ireland. Catholics and Protestants here are always aware of our 'differences' historically, but in reality the majority got/get along and never wanted the Troubles thrust upon us...and there were the terrorist organisations who lined their pockets and added to the citizens misery with protection rackets and drug dealing on top of all the bombings and shootings....