[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I'll say again. We voted to leave the EU. The single market is part of the EU. Therefore we voted to leave the single market. That doesn't mean we can't have a new deal but people have to let go of trying to cling to bits of the EU.

Except that there ARE non EU members in the single market already. You talk like they're one thing. They're not.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Except that there ARE non EU members in the single market already. You talk like they're one thing. They're not.

Well pointed out TS.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Except that there ARE non EU members in the single market already. You talk like they're one thing. They're not.

Not exactly so TS. There are people who have various different agreements that allow them access to the single market, freedom of movement being one of them.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Not exactly so TS. There are people who have various different agreements that allow them access to the single market, freedom of movement being one of them.

It is exactly so. They aren't EU members. Yes, there are caveats when it comes to single market membership, but it has nothing to do with full membership, and is not what was voted on in the referendum. To say that it's a flat "no" you have to make the assumption that everyone who voted for Brexit did so because they wanted an end to free movement. I'm sure many did, but not all. And the figures and percentages simply aren't available. We can "Brexit" and keep free movement without it being in violation of the referendum result in any way.

[DemolitionRed]

I voted out but now I feel like the fat lady who fell for the spiel on how a herbal drink would make me thin! I’m far from alone; the Economist has shown research which revealed a massive turn in Brexit retreats from people who are outraged by the false promises made in the Brexit campaign.

I always laughed at the ridiculous promises about cutting immigration. That asylum seekers would be returned to their country and border control would be letting less migrants in and so I wasn’t surprised when that showed up pretty quickly after the vote as the unicorn it always was.

I did though, believe their implicit promises about the NHS. I believed Boris Johnson when he very clearly told us that we would retain access to the single market and our public services could only survive under Brexit and I believed the secretary of State for international trade when he told us all that we would trade freely with the EU.

We are now being told that all these figures were merely extrapolation and all these campaign promises were nothing more than a series of possibilities.

I have buyers remorse and if you care to read articles in ‘The Economist,’ I’m certainly not alone. There has been a massive move over to remain since this unicorn was revealed to be nothing more than a pit pony.

I believe the percentage of remain voters now far outweigh the Brexiteers. I also believe that many of those who regret, won't have the balls to say so, but that's good because it gives the Conservatives a false illusion. When it comes to the election, there's is bound to be a lot of tactical voting because the regretters won't be voting for the blues.

[DemolitionRed]

You have to ask yourself why Farage resigned and Boris walked away with his tail between his legs after the Brexit vote. How could such staunch campaigners walk away from the masses so quickly after the results?

Did Farage never really believe we'd be exiting the EU. If so, then his sudden resignation makes sense. If he had lost the vote by a small margin, he was bound to gain a lot of seats at the next election because many voting to leave would still have belief in his capabilities. When the exit results were unveiled, Farage knew he couldn't deliver and so threw in the towel, leaving others to pick up the upheaval.

Did Boris want to undermine Cameron. Was he ensuring his status in the British government? perhaps he'd taken a bet in the Bullingdon Club.

[Livia]

Corbyn's performance, on the other hand, wasn't exactly stellar... but let's gloss over that.

[Kizzy]

I have a feeling Corbyns fault is the new Jims fault ..

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I voted out but now I feel like the fat lady who fell for the spiel on how a herbal drink would make me thin! I’m far from alone; the Economist has shown research which revealed a massive turn in Brexit retreats from people who are outraged by the false promises made in the Brexit campaign.

I always laughed at the ridiculous promises about cutting immigration. That asylum seekers would be returned to their country and border control would be letting less migrants in and so I wasn’t surprised when that showed up pretty quickly after the vote as the unicorn it always was.

I did though, believe their implicit promises about the NHS. I believed Boris Johnson when he very clearly told us that we would retain access to the single market and our public services could only survive under Brexit and I believed the secretary of State for international trade when he told us all that we would trade freely with the EU.

We are now being told that all these figures were merely extrapolation and all these campaign promises were nothing more than a series of possibilities.

I have buyers remorse and if you care to read articles in ‘The Economist,’ I’m certainly not alone. There has been a massive move over to remain since this unicorn was revealed to be nothing more than a pit pony.

I believe the percentage of remain voters now far outweigh the Brexiteers. I also believe that many of those who regret, won't have the balls to say so, but that's good because it gives the Conservatives a false illusion. When it comes to the election, there's is bound to be a lot of tactical voting because the regretters won't be voting for the blues.

There are also many from the remain camp who would now vote leave.

Again a lot of what is said is 'protest' - talk is cheap - but once the chips are down we have come this far and I think most will want to continue. We don't have much to go back to after all.

Those that want out so soon are weak and scared. It takes some balls to stick to your guns when there are peaks and troughs, but I think most of those that voted out have those balls.

[Northern Monkey]

It's a good job Labour aren't going to be handling Brexit negotiations.I have just witnessed a Labour MP on national television trying to press David Davis into telling us all and the EU negotiaters the minimum amount he's willing pay for this so called "divorce bill".
Is she off her rocker?How would that help the country in any way?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You have to ask yourself why Farage resigned and Boris walked away with his tail between his legs after the Brexit vote. How could such staunch campaigners walk away from the masses so quickly after the results?

Did Farage never really believe we'd be exiting the EU. If so, then his sudden resignation makes sense. If he had lost the vote by a small margin, he was bound to gain a lot of seats at the next election because many voting to leave would still have belief in his capabilities. When the exit results were unveiled, Farage knew he couldn't deliver and so threw in the towel, leaving others to pick up the upheaval.

Did Boris want to undermine Cameron. Was he ensuring his status in the British government? perhaps he'd taken a bet in the Bullingdon Club.

But....Farage is not in government and never will be.It's not his job to deliver.He can't do anything.
I agree with you on Boris.Pure tactics all the way.Infact didn't it come out that he'd written two Brexit articles?One pro EU and one anti?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

There are also many from the remain camp who would now vote leave.

Ok.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

It's a good job Labour aren't going to be handling Brexit negotiations.I have just witnessed a Labour MP on national television trying to press David Davis into telling us all and the EU negotiaters the minimum amount he's willing pay for this so called "divorce bill".
Is she off her rocker?How would that help the country in any way?

Clearly she has no understanding of the strategy of keeping your cards close to your chest. Silly woman.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Clearly she has no understanding of the strategy of keeping your cards close to your chest. Silly woman.

It is all a game, after all.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It is all a game, after all.

Unfortunately in many ways it is, for the EU at least - and a pretty nasty one at that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Unfortunately in many ways it is, for the EU at least - and a pretty nasty one at that.

For all politics always, but that doesn't mean we should simply accept or encourage it in our own leaders . Perhaps have "the balls" to strive for something better?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

For all politics always, but that doesn't mean we should simply accept or encourage it in our own leaders . Perhaps have "the balls" to strive for something better?

We are striving for something better. Hence Brexit.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You have to ask yourself why Farage resigned and Boris walked away with his tail between his legs after the Brexit vote. How could such staunch campaigners walk away from the masses so quickly after the results?

Did Farage never really believe we'd be exiting the EU. If so, then his sudden resignation makes sense. If he had lost the vote by a small margin, he was bound to gain a lot of seats at the next election because many voting to leave would still have belief in his capabilities. When the exit results were unveiled, Farage knew he couldn't deliver and so threw in the towel, leaving others to pick up the upheaval.

Did Boris want to undermine Cameron. Was he ensuring his status in the British government? perhaps he'd taken a bet in the Bullingdon Club.

Boris was stabbed in the back by Gove and didn't have enough votes to stand. I was not influenced by the leave campaign, having already made up my mind on the EU. Whether Boris vision and promises would have held true or not is something we will never know because someone else got the job and she wasn't one of those campaigning for leave so it's an entirely different perspective. I find it strange that people seem to try to hold the current administration responsible for things suggested by others. Farage has never had the power nor position to make any kind of promises so if he did and anyone believed that was going to happen was foolish on their part.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

We are striving for something better. Hence Brexit.

My thoughts exactly!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

We are striving for something better. Hence Brexit.

Oh yes. Britain, who has been playing political chess for as long as if not far longer than the rest of the world, is seeking a better way with less game playing, by exiting Europe, through a series of political games. Flawless plan.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh yes. Britain, who has been playing political chess for as long as if not far longer than the rest of the world, is seeking a better way with less game playing, by exiting Europe, through a series of political games. Flawless plan.

So far our dear friends in the EU are the ones playing games and leaking gossip to the press. I don't recall mentioning any plan are you making stuff up?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

So far our dear friends in the EU are the ones playing games and leaking gossip to the press. I don't recall mentioning any plan are you making stuff up?

You don't understand what I'm talking about so there isn't much point elaborating. That's not "making stuff up", however.

I would add though that if you genuinely believe that Theresa May is not playing games, then you are politically naive and you should probably be aware of that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You don't understand what I'm talking about so there isn't much point elaborating. That's not "making stuff up", however.

I would add though that if you genuinely believe that Theresa May is not playing games, then you are politically naive and you should probably be aware of that.

... and the person to point out Jaxie's faults in her political thinking is... you.

There's nothing in this world you can't refer to as game-playing so long as it suits whichever agenda you're pushing.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

... and the person to point out Jaxie's faults in her political thinking is... you.

Yes. Did you have something to say about that up front instead of "clever" sideways implications?

There's nothing in this world you can't refer to as game-playing so long as it suits whichever agenda you're pushing.

Yes I already said that. And followed up with, "but that doesn't mean we should simply accept or encourage it in our own politicians". I'm not sure which part of that is confusing, or didn't make it clear that I already know that "evryone else does it tho!". It's not a good enough excuse for a 10 year old in the playground, so it's not a good enough excuse for those in charge of the lives of millions.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You don't understand what I'm talking about so there isn't much point elaborating. That's not "making stuff up", however.

I would add though that if you genuinely believe that Theresa May is not playing games, then you are politically naive and you should probably be aware of that.

Que?

I don't think I said whether she plays games or not, I have no idea if she likes a bit of Scrabble or Monopoly.