[user104658]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Doctor Who should know let me ask him next time he parks his tardis on my drive

Doctor Who quite openly hints against the legitimacy of organised religion, tbh... And who can argue with that?

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Withano

More likely than - perhaps, up to each individual to decide for themselves.

This is you backtracking though, it was a firm no from you before. Good for you.

Backtracking? I think I've made my point pretty clear throughout the thread?

You seem intent on challenging me on my point. Now I ask the same from you. How did the creation of the earth happen? I'll wait

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

You, nor the gratest scientific minds in the world, can not prove or disprove that.

They probably will one day. On the other hand God's, by whatever name, simply don't exist - it's just a state of mind.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

They probably will one day. On the other hand God's, by whatever name, simply don't exist - it's just a state of mind.

But until, and unless that day comes, you can't prove any of those statements.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Backtracking? I think I've made my point pretty clear throughout the thread?

You seem intent on challenging me on my point. Now I ask the same from you. How did the creation of the earth happen? I'll wait

How would I, you, or the greatest scientific minds in the world possibly know the answer to that question.
I'll avoid attempting to answer so I don't look as daft as you have.

[AnnieK]

I have never and would never divulge my beliefs or lack of on a forum....but having spoken to people about the creation of earth.....Big bang theory etc.etc....Whilst maybe scientifically there is more leaning to science versus god.....A lot of people believe the god created earth 7 days story is not actual days as we know now.....There was never a chronological time put on it but the stags f the cation of earth. ..ie water land etc happened o er a period of time. You have to remember that if the Bible is believed it is little more than centuries of Chinese whispers until it was actually written down and therefore it could be interpreted many ways

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Neither can religion.

"Religion" doesn't pretend to have proof though. It why they call it "faith".

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

I love this, my belief certainly brings me comfort

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Withano

How would I, you, or the greatest scientific minds in the world possibly know the answer to that question.
I'll avoid attempting to answer so I don't look as daft as you have.

Definitley avoided it lol. You can't answer it because even though it isn't 100%, the theories of the earths creation are a damn sight more realistic than a man making it. You know... actual scientific evidence. Religion doesn't have that.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by RichardG

for the same reason why i can't turn my water into wine after a long day at work

we are not living in a fantasy

But you're talking about the Bible there, I'm just on about a higher being that created the Universe without any stories, hey Earth itself could be an experiment by Aliens for a TV Show like South Park joked about, you just never truly know.

[Glenn.]

The existence of aliens is more realistic than a higher being.

[Marsh.]

The higher being could be an alien.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Definitley avoided it lol. You can't answer it because even though it isn't 100%, the theories of the earths creation are a damn sight more realistic than a man making it. You know... actual scientific evidence. Religion doesn't have that.

I love how theories are hard cold evidence

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by AnnieK
Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

This ^ Annie is exactly how I feel about religion,it's PEOPLE that use it as a weapon.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

"Religion" doesn't pretend to have proof though. It why they call it "faith".

Blind faith.

The problem is it is often used to control peoples' thoughts and therefore actions. Religion has been used as a weapon of abuse for centuries. Without it such abuse could not continue.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

The existence of aliens is more realistic than a higher being.

Absolutely!

The existence of life in the Universe other than humans on Earth is based on logic, common sense, reasoning and Scientific theory whereas the religious 'god' stories are cultural fiction mixed and matched to suit the particular agenda of each culture with each 'religion' denouncing the others in favour of their own which they all arrogantly claim is 'obviously' the ''one true god''.

It's obviously everyone's right as an individual to believe in whatever they choose to and should never be any other way but with the majority of religions they seem to be obsessed with trying to force their beliefs onto others against their will.
Why can't other religions manage themselves more like Bhuddism for example ? It has such positive messages compared to most others and is free of opression and judgement of others. All the positives without any of the negatives.

[user104658]

Organised religion can't be disproven but it is inherently illogical . I mean, you can believe in pretty much anything if you want, but the inability to disprove it doesn't make it realistic and I honestly can think of no valid reason for people to have to shy away from saying that. And there does come a point of unlikelihood where it is valid to say that something is, for all intents and purposes, quite clearly false. Every organised religion falls under that heading. The concept of "some form of intelligent design that is completely unlike anything we have ever described or could ever even comprehend" is an unknown. That's not the same as saying "so Christians (or whoever) might be right!". Organised religions are man-made fictions, created to attempt to understand that which hasn't yet or can't be understood, and ultimately used to control. End of story, for me.

Now... My absolute MAIN issue with organised religion, is that it's entire existence hinges on the indoctrination of children from a young age. Without that aspect, religion simply ceases to exist in any major form. Religion continues by getting into the heads of the very young before they have developed the ability to use logic and reason (adolescence) and sets itself up as a major source of, strangely enough, both comfort AND fear, and once it's embedded in a brand new mind like that, the roots run deep. It becomes part of people's entire sense of self, the world, and existence entirely. It's not something that sits well with me, at all.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Organised religion can't be disproven but it is inherently illogical . I mean, you can believe in pretty much anything if you want, but the inability to disprove it doesn't make it realistic and I honestly can think of no valid reason for people to have to shy away from saying that. And there does come a point of unlikelihood where it is valid to say that something is, for all intents and purposes, quite clearly false. Every organised religion falls under that heading. The concept of "some form of intelligent design that is completely unlike anything we have ever described or could ever even comprehend" is an unknown. That's not the same as saying "so Christians (or whoever) might be right!". Organised religions are man-made fictions, created to attempt to understand that which hasn't yet or can't be understood, and ultimately used to control. End of story, for me.

Now... My absolute MAIN issue with organised religion, is that it's entire existence hinges on the indoctrination of children from a young age. Without that aspect, religion simply ceases to exist in any major form. Religion continues by getting into the heads of the very young before they have developed the ability to use logic and reason (adolescence) and sets itself up as a major source of, strangely enough, both comfort AND fear, and once it's embedded in a brand new mind like that, the roots run deep. It becomes part of people's entire sense of self, the world, and existence entirely. It's not something that sits well with me, at all.

Excellent post.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Organised religion can't be disproven but it is inherently illogical . I mean, you can believe in pretty much anything if you want, but the inability to disprove it doesn't make it realistic and I honestly can think of no valid reason for people to have to shy away from saying that. And there does come a point of unlikelihood where it is valid to say that something is, for all intents and purposes, quite clearly false. Every organised religion falls under that heading. The concept of "some form of intelligent design that is completely unlike anything we have ever described or could ever even comprehend" is an unknown. That's not the same as saying "so Christians (or whoever) might be right!". Organised religions are man-made fictions, created to attempt to understand that which hasn't yet or can't be understood, and ultimately used to control. End of story, for me.

Now... My absolute MAIN issue with organised religion, is that it's entire existence hinges on the indoctrination of children from a young age. Without that aspect, religion simply ceases to exist in any major form. Religion continues by getting into the heads of the very young before they have developed the ability to use logic and reason (adolescence) and sets itself up as a major source of, strangely enough, both comfort AND fear, and once it's embedded in a brand new mind like that, the roots run deep. It becomes part of people's entire sense of self, the world, and existence entirely. It's not something that sits well with me, at all.

That's a very good post and I agree with you, what I fail to understand is that when others point out other dangers with regard religion on these threads why you keep bringing up colour? Can you explain that because I'd like to hear it? The treatment of women and girls, fgm, brainwashing, enforcing religious dress codes are serious elements of religious conditioning.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

That's a very good post and I agree with you, what I fail to understand is that when others point out other dangers with regard religion on these threads why you keep bringing up colour? Can you explain that? The treatment of women and girls, fgm, brainwashing, enforcing religious dress codes are serious elements of religious conditioning.

Another good post.

[Kizzy]

Cultural conditioning, not religious.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

That's a very good post and I agree with you, what I fail to understand is that when others point out other dangers with regard religion on these threads why you keep bringing up colour? Can you explain that because I'd like to hear it? The treatment of women and girls, fgm, brainwashing, enforcing religious dress codes are serious elements of religious conditioning.

Because the religious assumption is part of the racial stereotyping. People seem to be unaware that the vast majority of refugees fleeing from the middle east are NOT heavily religious people who "dress funny" and oppress their women in backwards ways; they are completely normal, terrified families not really any different at all to the average British family. People see "refugees from the middle east" and apparently get this image in their mind of droves of heavily religious people in robes. That is stereotyping. That is racism. The inability to understand that most of these refugees are NOT that, AT ALL.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Cultural conditioning, not religious.

Religion is used / abused in the process of cultural conditioning (more than ANY other method), there's little point in denying that.

A mind that is set up from birth to accept conditioning (religion) will be easier to manipulate for life. It creates a resistance to logic.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Cultural conditioning, not religious.

Of course its religious. Culture and religion are entwined.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Because the religious assumption is part of the racial stereotyping. People seem to be unaware that the vast majority of refugees fleeing from the middle east are NOT heavily religious people who "dress funny" and oppress their women in backwards ways; they are completely normal, terrified families not really any different at all to the average British family. People see "refugees from the middle east" and apparently get this image in their mind of droves of heavily religious people in robes. That is stereotyping. That is racism. The inability to understand that most of these refugees are NOT that, AT ALL.

I am unclear then why you think that discussing religion or islam is automatically discussing migrants? And are you saying when you discuss religion it's not stereotyping but when others do it is? I don't think I've ever discussed migrants or their plight with you but in many discussions where we've been talking about religion and religious uniform you've brought up colour. I'm not trying to cause discord since that seems a frequent assumption, so if you want to discuss it in private message I'm up for it.Say the word.