[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Most of them probably are dead. We will know for sure in due course - why are you so impatient to declare them dead now?

Impatient... Why were they so quick to vastly underestimate the number of dead it 17? Is a better question, it was to avoid a bigger national outcry while the govt sorted out their grubby DUP deal!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Who are the rest though Kizzy?
Only 79 reported dead or missing, surely that would mean the rest are all accounted for.
The saddest thing about it is that there may be no closure for some families as identification of everybody could be impossible.

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Most of them probably are dead. We will know for sure in due course - why are you so impatient to declare them dead now?

Probably as it really does seem like a huge coverup

Far too many unaccounted for and estimates should be much higher. Not confirmed deaths, estimates

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

Will there be 'bodies' though? Except for the flats where the fire was put out faster i guess. I saw it claimed by a fireman that there were 3 tents full of 'bodies' but that could of course be bull. Have seen a few residents in facebook videos saying they saw bodies being brought out of the flats after dark too..as if they were trying to keep it on the quiet :S

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Will there be 'bodies' though? Except for the flats where the fire was put out faster i guess. I saw it claimed by a fireman that there were 3 tents full of 'bodies' but that could of course be bull. Have seen a few residents in facebook videos saying they saw bodies being brought out of the flats after dark too..as if they were trying to keep it on the quiet :S

I don't doubt that, the truth will out in time it always does, look at Hillsborough and how long they had to wait for justice.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

Not if they were illegal immigrants. They have to have something to work with.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not if they were illegal immigrants. They have to have something to work with.

They will be identifiable as human ...probably more so dead than alive.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that for one minute frankly. There will of course be ways to identify bodies.

Unfortunately there could be no body left to identify in some cases.
Very difficult to DNA ashes in a building that size with so much damage.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Unfortunately there could be no body left to identify in some cases.
Very difficult to DNA ashes in a building that size with so much damage.

There will be skulls and bone, identifiable as a body.

[Kizzy]

Sorry no money, we gave it all to the DUP.


'Councils face bills running to hundreds of millions of pounds to make tower blocks safe after the Government said it would not guarantee extra money to pay for vital work to prevent a repeat of the Grenfell disaster.

Ninety-five high-rise buildings in 32 local authority areas have failed safety tests, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said yesterday, with hundreds more blocks still to be tested.

'The findings prompted Theresa May to announce a “major national investigation” into the use of cladding on high-rise blocks, with every sample so far tested in the wake of the Grenfell found to be unsafe.'


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7809216.html

[Kizzy]

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndepend...4950927281636/

PMQs concerning cladding

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Do they think we are stupid?... 79 dead in a block that holds almost 600!

Of course theres a cover up!

How do you know there were 600 that seems a lot of people crammed into 120 one and two bed flats? Some elderly residents will be living alone, not every flat will have been occupied on the night either, if the council don't know how many were living there I don't know how anyone can know for sure how many were there on that night

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Most of them probably are dead. We will know for sure in due course - why are you so impatient to declare them dead now?

I think it's more to do with the fact that the government are taking their time so they can sweep it under the carpet until the public have moved on to the next story.

It's been weeks, they know how many people are dead but they are withholding that information for their own benefit.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

How do you know there were 600 that seems a lot of people crammed into 120 one and two bed flats? Some elderly residents will be living alone, not every flat will have been occupied on the night either, if the council don't know how many were living there I don't know how anyone can know for sure how many were there on that night

''How many people live at Grenfell Tower?
An exact figure is unknown but it is a 24-storey tower block and there are thought to be around 24 people per floor.
This would leave the total at around 600 (576) although authorities have no idea how many people were in their homes during the fire.
Kensington and Chelsea Council leader Nick Paget-Brown suggested, ‘several hundred would have been in there. It’s a question of establishing how many people were in there at the time of the fire''


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/where-...#ixzz4lIWbFZGn

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndepend...4950927281636/

PMQs concerning cladding

Yes Blair New Labour started it

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Blair New Labour started it

Started what? cladding with combustable material or the regeneration project.... I wouldn't be so quick to latch on to that until there is conformation of how many towers are affected and when they were clad.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

''How many people live at Grenfell Tower?
An exact figure is unknown but it is a 24-storey tower block and there are thought to be around 24 people per floor.
This would leave the total at around 600 (576) although authorities have no idea how many people were in their homes during the fire.
Kensington and Chelsea Council leader Nick Paget-Brown suggested, ‘several hundred would have been in there. It’s a question of establishing how many people were in there at the time of the fire''


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/where-...#ixzz4lIWbFZGn

I think the operative words there are the figure is unknown...the Asian man who was rescued was alone, I have seen a few families who have elderly/disabled relatives missing who lived alone, the young Italian couple who had just moved People seem to be assuming that all the flats were heaving with people, but the bedroom tax is a thing because people in social housing do have spare rooms especially if the lived there all their lives, some residents have formed groups now to see if the count is underestimated, I think it's difficult as people might have been staying over but equally residents might not have been in the building that night, and some are not coming forward for their own reasons

[jaxie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40434741

Det Supt Fiona McCormack said the full toll will only be known when the search and recovery operation is over.
She said: "What I can say is that we believe that around 80 people are either dead or sadly missing and I must presume that they are dead."
The officer added: "I don't want there to be any hidden victims. We want to understand the true human cost of this tragedy."

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Impatient... Why were they so quick to vastly underestimate the number of dead it 17? Is a better question, it was to avoid a bigger national outcry while the govt sorted out their grubby DUP deal!

Ever the conspiracy theorist. No-one is saying there aren't many more victims. 80 or 800 - equally as serious and devastating. Why would anyone try to hush up the real figure. It makes no sense.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think the operative words there are the figure is unknown...the Asian man who was rescued was alone, I have seen a few families who have elderly/disabled relatives missing who lived alone, the young Italian couple who had just moved People seem to be assuming that all the flats were heaving with people, but the bedroom tax is a thing because people in social housing do have spare rooms especially if the lived there all their lives, some residents have formed groups now to see if the count is underestimated, I think it's difficult as people might have been staying over but equally residents might not have been in the building that night, and some are not coming forward for their own reasons

Why is the figure unknown? Council tax is a thing too it shows who is in your property and their ages.
The estimate of 2 persons per flat per floor would be an over estimate in some properties and under in others surely?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Ever the conspiracy theorist. No-one is saying there aren't many more victims. 80 or 800 - equally as serious and devastating. Why would anyone try to hush up the real figure. It makes no sense.

For the reason given in the OP maybe?

[LeatherTrumpet]

this whole thing stinks

80 my absolute arse

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

this whole thing stinks

80 my absolute arse

That's for now - they accept there will be many more.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why is the figure unknown? Council tax is a thing too it shows who is in your property and their ages.
The estimate of 2 persons per flat per floor would be an over estimate in some properties and under in others surely?

If there were 600 people in the building you would have an average of 5 people in every flat

[DemolitionRed]

Grenfell included quite a few relatively big flats -3 bedrooms and even some 4-beds. Hence the large number of children. I guess (quite conservatively) the number of bedrooms must be over 300.

Here's a plan of just one floor

edited to replace bad link