[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ah, so you're avoiding talking about an ACTUAL waste of tax payers money while speaking at length about what is essentially an investment IF Labour under JC win an election and can successfully push this through parliament.

Do I really need to spell out the fatal flaw in your logic here? Surely you can see it, right?

Wasted? How? No money is wasted that is going to improve vital services somewhere.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It got put into the 'When we need to bribe a party to stay in power' fund. Would Brillo agree that the money spent on that bribe would have been better spent on the NHS, I wonder?

It will be...among other essential services. What the heck do you think it's going to be spent on?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of course it's not a deterrent, bright less well off kids still have ambition, the ethical question is is it right to exploit them in this way?
It should be criminal to agree terms of a loan and then ramp up the interest if it was anyone other that this corrupt bunch of shysters there would be uproar :/

Have you even read the article - it stated that free uni education for all would force the treasurey to impose caps on student numbers. How would that benefit the many?

[user104658]

Personally I think everyone should just get building trade apprenticeships instead. Think of all the stuff that would get built! Housing crisis shmousing shrisis, we'd have houses coming out of our ears!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Wasted? How? No money is wasted that is going to improve vital services somewhere.

It's a bribe to keep Tories in power, nothing more nothing less.

You can't be against the idea of wiping Student Debts because it'll cost in the short term by using the NHS as an excuse then ignore the fact that money that could have relieved a lot of the stress the NHS is under has been wasted to keep May in Downing Street. That's the issue here with Brillo's point of view.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a bribe to keep Tories in power, nothing more nothing less.

You can't be against the idea of wiping Student Debts because it'll cost in the short term by using the NHS as an excuse then ignore the fact that money that could have relieved a lot of the stress the NHS is under has been wasted to keep May in Downing Street. That's the issue here with Brillo's point of view.

Once again, how is the money being wasted?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

it does not need wiping. Education is free up to the age of 19. If people want to be high earners it is their responsibility to contribute. They are still likely to earn more than most so why on earth should lower earning tax-payers pay their debts. There are other priorities for the tax-payer.

Because the only possible reason to want to go to university is to become a "high earner" and that clearly happens for each and every graduate.

[the truth]

they only ever pay it if and when they starting earning over £21k

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Have you even read the article - it stated that free uni education for all would force the treasurey to impose caps on student numbers. How would that benefit the many?

It would benefit the brightest fairly across the board based on ability, it worked for years didn't it?
So what if they have to impose caps the onus should be on quality not quantity.

[jennyjuniper]

I would have preferred to see a 'partnership' between the government and student. Where the government pays some of the fees, but the student must pay some also. Sometimes getting something for free is not a good thing.
For example in America the 'obamacare' fiasco. Free health care for poor people seems a brilliant idea, until the hospitals, doctors and drug companies hop onto the 'bump up the price because the public purse will pay anyway' bandwagon and an aspirin cost 25 dollars.
Certainly students are our future and should be encouraged and helped, but they should also be encouraged to take personal responsibility for their own futures, starting with the realisation that if you want something badly, you have to work for it.

[user104658]

Free education for all, higher entry requirements across the board, if I'm being honest. Get rid of the situation we have now where many jobs that realistically don't require higher education nonetheless have a "must have a-degree-any-degree" checkbox to tick on the application form, and also make it that you need more than two C's and a swimming certificate to get into University.

Have to admit that I am a bit of an academic snob. I believe that getting into University should be based purely on ability, not financial considerations or anything else, and I also quite strongly believe that academia is being dramatically "dumbed down" with being turned into tuitions fees factories where they will accept pretty much anyone in order to harvest their cash, regardless of whether or not they will actually thrive in higher education.

Also, schools need to stop pushing so hard for 18 year olds to go straight to University out of the school gates! SOME people truly have a lath in mind and a course set at 18. A very small number of people. Most would benefit hugely from having a few years to actually figure out what they want to do, rather than heading off to university "because everyone else is". I definitely would have. I trotted along to Uni "because that's what you do next the teachers said so" and swapped degrees three times, never went to classes, ended up dropping out without a degree because I had zero motivation in the first place. Now that I'm older and wiser (the wisest, let's face it) I would absolutely love to go back into academia, but it's not financially or practically realistic, at least not until my wife graduates and is earning.

However I honestly believe that if I hadn't "rushed" to Uni at 18 and had taken 2 or 3 years to actually think about it, I would have gone in much more focused in the first place.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It would benefit the brightest fairly across the board based on ability, it worked for years didn't it?
So what if they have to impose caps the onus should be on quality not quantity.

Suddenly you are getting elitist. I thought Corbynites cared about the many. Or is that only when it suits.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because the only possible reason to want to go to university is to become a "high earner" and that clearly happens for each and every graduate.

A third of debt never gets paid for that reason.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Personally I think everyone should just get building trade apprenticeships instead. Think of all the stuff that would get built! Housing crisis shmousing shrisis, we'd have houses coming out of our ears!

Sounds like all those pointless degrees that really don't count for much in the real world.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Once again, how is the money being wasted?

It's been given to the DUP so they can dress it up as a victory for NI when it's really a victory for them.

The Tories preach austerity and they cut down on funding for the NHS and yet they throw a £1bn bribe to stay in power.

If you don't think the DUP deal is a glorified bribe then you are burying your head in the sand.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Sounds like all those pointless degrees that really don't count for much in the real world.

Grrr young people and their qualifications!

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's been given to the DUP so they can dress it up as a victory for NI when it's really a victory for them.

The Tories preach austerity and they cut down on funding for the NHS and yet they throw a £1bn bribe to stay in power.

If you don't think the DUP deal is a glorified bribe then you are burying your head in the sand.

Why do you keep trying to divert? I didn't mention anything about bribes, or the DUP, I asked you how the money is being wasted, which you repeatedly claim.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Why do you keep trying to divert? I didn't mention anything about bribes, or the DUP, I asked you how the money is being wasted, which you repeatedly claim.

Then I'd advise you read my posts more carefully as I've answered that. It's been wasted on a bribe when it could have been used to alleviate some of the stress on public services.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Then I'd advise you read my posts more carefully as I've answered that. It's been wasted on a bribe when it could have been used to alleviate some of the stress on public services.

No, you still haven't answered. A 'bribe' isn't a concrete thing, money is...and the money will be used to alleviate some of the stress on public services. Why do you think it won't be?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

No, you still haven't answered. A 'bribe' isn't a concrete thing, money is...and the money will be used to alleviate some of the stress on public services. Why do you think it won't be?

You can't say it's not an answer just because it's not the one you want to hear.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You can't say it's not an answer just because it's not the one you want to hear.

lol Okay, you made a blunder but I'll let you off the hook and not ask you again. Just try not to make silly comments that you can't back up....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

lol Okay, you made a blunder but I'll let you off the hook and not ask you again. Just try not to make silly comments that you can't back up....

Aww, you're trying to bait out a negative response from me, that's adorable

The Tories bribed the DUP with taxpayer money, you've got no proof that the money given to the DUP will go to public services, that's just something you tell yourself like how you pretended that the DUP's terrorist links weren't that bad because 'they didn't kill anyone' while in the same breath demonising JC for having less links to terrorism than the party you are throwing your support behind.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Aww, you're trying to bait out a negative response from me, that's adorable

The Tories bribed the DUP with taxpayer money, you've got no proof that the money given to the DUP will go to public services, that's just something you tell yourself like how you pretended that the DUP's terrorist links weren't that bad because 'they didn't kill anyone' while in the same breath demonising JC for having less links to terrorism than the party you are throwing your support behind.

There you go again, making comments that have no truth to them. I have never supported the DUP. You forgot to mention the bits where I said I disliked them. lol
How does saying nobody in the party killed anyone (unlike Sinn Fein) mean I support them? It means just what I said - they are not as bad as Sinn Fein.
Truth - unless you disagree and support Sinn Fein/IRA like ole Corbyn?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

you've got no proof that the money given to the DUP will go to public services, that's just something you tell yourself.

Are you serious?

So where do you think it will go then? No diverting this time please!

[joeysteele]

I have no objection to funds going to N Ireland but if funding was there why haven't the govt and DUP got it there before
Rather than it only come about 'conditionally' for DUP votes in the UK parliament.
That is what stinks to high heaven as to this deal.
Also Arlene Foster appears to have a cloud over her financial dealings possibly too.

As for the student debts it is an aspiration of Corbyn's to end this sorry state of students leaving Uni with over £50,000 of debts round their necks already in life.
However it is a longer term thought motion rather than an overnight venture.

Student debts are rising big-time,I was fortunate to have funding and family to get me through Uni.
Many do not.

Also,while true,it only has to be paid back once a certain salary is begun.
It still remains a debt and so gets taken into account when applying for mortgages etc.

It is time this culture, made far worse by the coalitions trebling of fees and then the other moves mentioned as to interest,was now addressed.
Hopefully with moves downward as to levels of student debts and seeing them off altogether.