[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Where exactly is the social and economic issue. All those living here have access to free education, free health care and free benefits (where needed) - everyone is equal in that respect.

Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If you want to keep harping on about skin colour - I would like to know how many white gangs there are in comparison to non-white gangs. I think it is obvious there are a lot less white gangs - so how does that make gangs culturally English. That makes no sense.

You’ve clearly never lived in London. White gangs around London tend to be well organized units that earn themselves a lot of money. In Central and East London the white gangs (gangsters) are notorious. These aren’t the teenagers that get out of hand on a Saturday night, they are organized crime syndicates that provide drugs, finances and sort out and rid people of stolen goods and credit card fraud and its been going on for decades.

Remember the Cray twins? Well they were small fry compared to Eddie Richardsons mob. Gangland rivalry amongst London whites has been going on since before our grannies were born and its still going on today with people like Curtis ‘cocky’ Warren who’s run multi £million cannabis smuggling operations. What about the feared Adams family (Terry the Godfather Adams) or Scull cracker Wheatley who earned his nick from pistol whipping his victims round the head. Dave Courtney’s gang is still going strong. I’ve met Courtney on the club scene in London. He comes in flanked by bodyguards built like brick ****houses.

White gangs in London are organized crime gangsters and a lot more lethal than your average teenage gang. Though they do pull in the small fry gangs to do their dirty work.

And then of course we have the massive football fan gangs who are white.

Edited to add the notorious white gypsy gangs.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You’ve clearly never lived in London. White gangs around London tend to be well organized units that earn themselves a lot of money. In Central and East London the white gangs (gangsters) are notorious. These aren’t the teenagers that get out of hand on a Saturday night, they are organized crime syndicates that provide drugs, finances and sort out and rid people of stolen goods and credit card fraud and its been going on for decades.

Remember the Cray twins? Well they were small fry compared to Eddie Richardsons mob. Gangland rivalry amongst London whites has been going on since before our grannies were born and its still going on today with people like Curtis ‘cocky’ Warren who’s run multi £million cannabis smuggling operations. What about the feared Adams family (Terry the Godfather Adams) or Scull cracker Wheatley who earned his nick from pistol whipping his victims round the head. Dave Courtney’s gang is still going strong. I’ve met Courtney on the club scene in London. He comes in flanked by bodyguards built like brick ****houses.

White gangs in London are organized crime gangsters and a lot more lethal than your average teenage gang. Though they do pull in the small fry gangs to do their dirty work.

And then of course we have the massive football fan gangs who are white.

Edited to add the notorious white gypsy gangs.

So you have mentioned some apparently well known white gangs spread across how many years/decades I don't know. But how proportionate are they to black/Asian gangs, especially today. Most violent crime including the use of guns and knives and murder that we see on the news seem to involve black gang members and there has been a definite rise in sex related crimes committed by Asian men. We hear more and more about these kind of crimes daily and they are worrying times for all. We have to address this.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So you have mentioned some apparently well known white gangs spread across how many years/decades I don't know. But how proportionate are they to black/Asian gangs, especially today. Most violent crime including the use of guns and knives and murder that we see on the news seem to involve black gang members and there has been a definite rise in sex related crimes committed by Asian men. We hear more and more about these kind of crimes daily and they are worrying times for all. We have to address this.

If we make a comparison with blacks, Asians, mixed race gangs and white gangs, the white gangs would come out on top. The white gangs that really make up the numbers are the football hooligan firms. They are massive in comparison to all other gangs in the UK

[lime]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think Europe is getting to be a very scary place, Something like 9,000 migrants arrived from Africa near Venice last week, the numbers are staggering.

Cherie I know you are Irish...there was a chap on the the Joe Duffy show the other day that was walking through Freedom park in Kilkenny...he and his son were savageley beaten by Irish gangs..The numbers of those who want to leave their own countries to get to where we are is staggering...But ...nobody can deny that..Isn't that human nature to leave and hope for a better life for you and your kids.....


I left South Africa as a Boer ...because of what was happening to us whites..
I left with a great education ...thanks to Apartheied

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by lime

Cherie I know you are Irish...there was a chap on the the Joe Duffy show the other day that was walking through Freedom park in Kilkenny...he and his son were savageley beaten by Irish gangs..The numbers of those who want to leave their own countries to get to where we are is staggering...But ...nobody can deny that..Isn't that human nature to leave and hope for a better life for you and your kids.....


I left South Africa as a Boer ...because of what was happening to us whites..
I left with a great education ...thanks to Apartheied

Have you seen how Italy are struggling. One MP is calling for a referendum. They can't cope. It is all very well people wanting to better their lives but the lives of those in the countries they crash-land in matter too.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Have you seen how Italy are struggling. One MP is calling for a referendum. They can't cope. It is all very well people wanting to better their lives but the lives of those in the countries they crash-land in matter too.

True but Italy's fragile economy isn't suffering because of migration! Immigration is the last of its worries.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Have you seen how Italy are struggling. One MP is calling for a referendum. They can't cope. It is all very well people wanting to better their lives but the lives of those in the countries they crash-land in matter too.

Glad you mentioned Italy brillo..Just back from a two week stay there...When is the last time you were there.

There is no denying they as a well known country as migrants are having a problem with migrants..But They are Intelligent enough not to blame all crime on foreigners...

[lime]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

True but Italy's fragile economy isn't suffering because of migration! Immigration is the last of its worries.

English is not my first launage....You said it much better than me

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by lime

Glad you mentioned Italy brillo..Just back from a two week stay there...When is the last time you were there.

There is no denying they as a well known country as migrants are having a problem with migrants..But They are Intelligent enough not to blame all crime on foreigners...

And neither did I. But there are significant issues.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Where exactly is the social and economic issue. All those living here have access to free education, free health care and free benefits (where needed) - everyone is equal in that respect.

Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If you want to keep harping on about skin colour - I would like to know how many white gangs there are in comparison to non-white gangs. I think it is obvious there are a lot less white gangs - so how does that make gangs culturally English. That makes no sense.

Only if you delude yourself into thinking that. There's more people reliant on food banks than ever before, the gap between rich and poor has never been bigger and the economy is in a state where the poor are squeezed for every penny they have while the government are happy enough to keep the loopholes that allow the rich to dodge taxes because the Tories don't want to piss on their own shoes.

If you think everything is fine and dandy with the economy and the social issues it creates then you are willfully ignorant and your second paragraph only proves it to be true. Escaping one's circumstances is not easy for most people and the circumstances that they are born into certainly isn't their fault. The fact that you have a 'them and us' attitude says it all really, you wouldn't be saying this about white British people in the same circumstances.

It's hysterical and quite typical of you to think that there aren't that many white gang members. There are plenty of white gangs, as DR said, hooliganism is still massive and most hooligan gangs are mostly white. From personal experience, the only gang members I've ever known have been white, same with drug dealers. Gang culture isn't about race, it's about social and economic issues. Gangs suddenly didn't spring up overnight because of immigration. You are just looking for reasons to justify your racism.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Only if you delude yourself into thinking that. There's more people reliant on food banks than ever before, the gap between rich and poor has never been bigger and the economy is in a state where the poor are squeezed for every penny they have while the government are happy enough to keep the loopholes that allow the rich to dodge taxes because the Tories don't want to piss on their own shoes.

If you think everything is fine and dandy with the economy and the social issues it creates then you are willfully ignorant and your second paragraph only proves it to be true. Escaping one's circumstances is not easy for most people and the circumstances that they are born into certainly isn't their fault. The fact that you have a 'them and us' attitude says it all really, you wouldn't be saying this about white British people in the same circumstances.

It's hysterical and quite typical of you to think that there aren't that many white gang members. There are plenty of white gangs, as DR said, hooliganism is still massive and most hooligan gangs are mostly white. From personal experience, the only gang members I've ever known have been white, same with drug dealers. Gang culture isn't about race, it's about social and economic issues. Gangs suddenly didn't spring up overnight because of immigration. You are just looking for reasons to justify your racism.

I'm clearly not talking about social and economic issues per se but what particular social economic issues 2nd/3rd generation immigrants have over anyone else in Britain. They have the same access to free education as anyone else and therefore have no reason not to develop skills or attain a decent level of education to help improve their chance of getting a job/having a career to help improve their economic position, same as every other working-class child in Britain. More recent migrants get help with free language classes, access to benefits, social housing, healthcare, etc. Britain bends over backwards to help them to help themselves. If they, 2nd/3rd generation immigrants as well as more recent migrants, choose not to make the most of that free education in order to help themselves, the same as the rest of us, then they are responsible for their own situation. What part of that was not clear?

They are still a lot better off here economically than they would have been in the countries they or their parents originally came from, for all the above reasons, but, despite that, many still try to blame Britain for their situation. Britain has given them the same chances as everyone else. There comes a point when people are responsible for their own success - but instead try to blame the country. It's a cop-out.

Did I say gangs sprang up overnight, no. But we have clearly had a bigger problem with gang culture in recent years and most of what we see on the news is related to non-white groups. The recent increase in sex attacks from Asian gangs is a particular worry and demonstrates an unacceptable attitude towards women - there is no denying this has been a big problem all over Europe recently and is directly related to migrants. But of course, due to PC puppets, we can't talk about that so the problem does not get addressed properly. That is racism.

Attempting to give preferential treatment to one group over another by continually making excuses and blaming those that gave them a better chance in the first place also has a part to play in people running out of patience and tolerance.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by lime

Cherie I know you are Irish...there was a chap on the the Joe Duffy show the other day that was walking through Freedom park in Kilkenny...he and his son were savageley beaten by Irish gangs..The numbers of those who want to leave their own countries to get to where we are is staggering...But ...nobody can deny that..Isn't that human nature to leave and hope for a better life for you and your kids.....


I left South Africa as a Boer ...because of what was happening to us whites..
I left with a great education ...thanks to Apartheied

Yeah i get what you are saying, but you immigrated legally, these people are paying traffickers putting their own and their kids life at risk, more often than not they have to be rescued from over crowded ships, then when they land all they have ahead of them is a detention centre in a country that is stretched trying to cope, I blame the traffickers who are selling an idyll that does not exist, controlled immigration is one thing, what the traffickers are doing is heaping misery on misery

As as aside Ireland, for a country that exported people regularly over the years ican be less than welcoming with people coming in

[DemolitionRed]

@ Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If we want to look at why some immigrants blame this country, we need look no further than the Gurkha’s. The 1947 Tripartite Agreement was abused by the Conservative British Governments. Just about every right on that agreement was broken.

When my dad was in the armed forces, we lived in Aldershot for a while. I grew up believing the Gurkha’s were the British Army mercenaries. My dad, up until recently, always believed they got a full army pension after serving their time and that they got the same rates of pay as British soldiers. Unfortunately, the Gurkha’s and senior British Officers were not au fait with this Agreement being so heavily corrupted until fairly recently.

Since the Joanna Lumley campaign Nepalese families moving to the UK has tripled. People in Nepal sold their houses and land to come and live in **** holes like Aldershot only to find that their ex soldier pensions are a mere fraction of what they should be and the cost of living in the UK, when you’re no longer living in an army barracks, is unaffordable for most. Their husbands/fathers/brothers served their time on the front line and even won the Falklands war, were encouraged to sell everything in their homeland and come and live in a land of milk and honey only to discover they’ve been well and truly shafted. Most apparently want to go back to Nepal but they now have nothing to go back to.

I’m sure Lumley had good intensions and she most certainly wasn’t au fait with the scam that had gone on around the government and the Tripartite Agreement. None of this is the Nepalese immigrants fault. All of them have the right to be angry.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

@ Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If we want to look at why some immigrants blame this country, we need look no further than the Gurkha’s. The 1947 Tripartite Agreement was abused by the Conservative British Governments. Just about every right on that agreement was broken.

When my dad was in the armed forces, we lived in Aldershot for a while. I grew up believing the Gurkha’s were the British Army mercenaries. My dad, up until recently, always believed they got a full army pension after serving their time and that they got the same rates of pay as British soldiers. Unfortunately, the Gurkha’s and senior British Officers were not au fait with this Agreement being so heavily corrupted until fairly recently.

Since the Joanna Lumley campaign Nepalese families moving to the UK has tripled. People in Nepal sold their houses and land to come and live in **** holes like Aldershot only to find that their ex soldier pensions are a mere fraction of what they should be and the cost of living in the UK, when you’re no longer living in an army barracks, is unaffordable for most. Their husbands/fathers/brothers served their time on the front line and even won the Falklands war, were encouraged to sell everything in their homeland and come and live in a land of milk and honey only to discover they’ve been well and truly shafted. Most apparently want to go back to Nepal but they now have nothing to go back to.

I’m sure Lumley had good intensions and she most certainly wasn’t au fait with the scam that had gone on around the government and the Tripartite Agreement. None of this is the Nepalese immigrants fault. All of them have the right to be angry.

That I believe is a different situation entirely. I completely agree they have a right to be angry and have every entitlement to the same pension as British soldiers. They fought for this country and deserve it.

Unfortunately I don't know a lot about it but do remember hearing something about it and felt the same way then as I do know. TBH honest I thought that had been resolved. All brave men and women who fought for this country deserve the same equal pension and recognition for their service to Britain. To discriminate like that is disgusting and unacceptable. I hope someone is fighting their cause.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yeah i get what you are saying, but you immigrated legally, these people are paying traffickers putting their own and their kids life at risk, more often than not they have to be rescued from over crowded ships, then when they land all they have ahead of them is a detention centre in a country that is stretched trying to cope, I blame the traffickers who are selling an idyll that does not exist, controlled immigration is one thing, what the traffickers are doing is heaping misery on misery

As as aside Ireland, for a country that exported people regularly over the years ican be less than welcoming with people coming in

Cherie we came here legally quite simply because we could....contrary to other opinions we never turned up at Dublin port saying give us a job...Bertie & Co turned up in JBourg during Celtic tiger recruiting us
I get what you are saying about migrants putting their kids lives at risk..I think both you and me Cherie left our home countries to make a better life for our families....but let's face it we weren't being bombed arse over tits

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

'They aren't culturally english! They aren't white!'

TS has hit the nail on the head, gang culture is a social and economic issue rather than a race one.

This..most gang violence is post code related.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I'm clearly not talking about social and economic issues per se but what particular social economic issues 2nd/3rd generation immigrants have over anyone else in Britain. They have the same access to free education as anyone else and therefore have no reason not to develop skills or attain a decent level of education to help improve their chance of getting a job/having a career to help improve their economic position, same as every other working-class child in Britain. More recent migrants get help with free language classes, access to benefits, social housing, healthcare, etc. Britain bends over backwards to help them to help themselves. If they, 2nd/3rd generation immigrants as well as more recent migrants, choose not to make the most of that free education in order to help themselves, the same as the rest of us, then they are responsible for their own situation. What part of that was not clear?

They are still a lot better off here economically than they would have been in the countries they or their parents originally came from, for all the above reasons, but, despite that, many still try to blame Britain for their situation. Britain has given them the same chances as everyone else. There comes a point when people are responsible for their own success - but instead try to blame the country. It's a cop-out.

Did I say gangs sprang up overnight, no. But we have clearly had a bigger problem with gang culture in recent years and most of what we see on the news is related to non-white groups. The recent increase in sex attacks from Asian gangs is a particular worry and demonstrates an unacceptable attitude towards women - there is no denying this has been a big problem all over Europe recently and is directly related to migrants. But of course, due to PC puppets, we can't talk about that so the problem does not get addressed properly. That is racism.

Attempting to give preferential treatment to one group over another by continually making excuses and blaming those that gave them a better chance in the first place also has a part to play in people running out of patience and tolerance.

You do know that real life isn't like one of those films where a middle class white teacher changes the lives of a bunch of minority students by teaching them about Shakespeare right? You're also really oversimplifying things in order to bash non-white people.

The government is to blame for a rise in gang activity. When the economy is bad crime rates go up, when it's difficult to make a living honestly crime rates go up. In areas with a lot of gang activity it's difficult not to get caught up and dragged into it. I don't think anyone's 'blaming Britain' the government is to blame and if you can't differentiate between the government and Britain itself then that's another worrying issue in itself.

There's a focus on non-white gangs in the media because it riles up people like you who look for reasons to hate on people who aren't white. It's the same reason why Muslim responses against terrorism never get media attention because the media wants to go with the 'Muslims aren't going enough to prevent terrorism' angle because they want to create hysteria against them. Your prejudices are being used against you to suit the media's agenda. It's also funny that you keep banging on about PC when you are one of the most PC members on here but you don't realise it.

Nobody is attempting to give preferential treatment to a certain race, I'm just asking you to open your eyes and realise that the issue of gangs is not a race based issue but you won't do that since you feel the need to justify your hatred rather than accept the fact that you are quite simply racist. I'm talking about gang culture as a whole, I'm acknowledging all it's aspects but you only want to talk about the parts that don't involve white people because the reality of gang culture doesn't reflect the points you are trying to make.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

This..most gang violence is post code related.

Yup, Poorer areas are going to be more prone to having gangs regardless of race.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You do know that real life isn't like one of those films where a middle class white teacher changes the lives of a bunch of minority students by teaching them about Shakespeare right? You're also really oversimplifying things in order to bash non-white people.

The government is to blame for a rise in gang activity. When the economy is bad crime rates go up, when it's difficult to make a living honestly crime rates go up. In areas with a lot of gang activity it's difficult not to get caught up and dragged into it. I don't think anyone's 'blaming Britain' the government is to blame and if you can't differentiate between the government and Britain itself then that's another worrying issue in itself.

There's a focus on non-white gangs in the media because it riles up people like you who look for reasons to hate on people who aren't white. It's the same reason why Muslim responses against terrorism never get media attention because the media wants to go with the 'Muslims aren't going enough to prevent terrorism' angle because they want to create hysteria against them. Your prejudices are being used against you to suit the media's agenda. It's also funny that you keep banging on about PC when you are one of the most PC members on here but you don't realise it.

Nobody is attempting to give preferential treatment to a certain race, I'm just asking you to open your eyes and realise that the issue of gangs is not a race based issue but you won't do that since you feel the need to justify your hatred rather than accept the fact that you are quite simply racist. I'm talking about gang culture as a whole, I'm acknowledging all it's aspects but you only want to talk about the parts that don't involve white people because the reality of gang culture doesn't reflect the points you are trying to make.

You know something I'm sick of all that racist garbage. I have a lot of respect for many races including the Japanese, Chinese and many others. What I don't like is religious control freaks and cold blooded murders and in my opinion Islam promotes both those things. I cannot respect people who support or ignore that kind of rhetoric. What has that got to do with skin colour - it is you who is being simplistic and believing any criticism of a religion has to be about race as the majority of people who follow Islam are non-white. Get this it isn't about their skin colour it is about their thought processes and their behaviour.

All religions have a history of brutality but I am talking about today, in the modern world and I have no time for those that refuse to move on or hide behind religion as a way of hiding their prejudices. That is not to say everyone else is perfect, we are all far from it - but very few religions today promote such hate, commit such atrocity and openly promote the murder of so many. I cannot respect anyone who can follow such a religion.

As for the gang thing - According to you if you are struggling it is understandable that some may become part of a gang and commit crime. What kind of crime is accepatable to you then - rape and murder. Crime is increasingly becoming more violent and not just gang on gang , but against innocent victims. Being hard up is never any excuse.

And btw if you think me objecting to PC by pulling you up on and complaining about your own un-PC behaviour and obvious hypocrisy is PC rather than tit for tat then you clearly don't have a clue.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You know something I'm sick of all that racist garbage. I have a lot of respect for many races including the Japanese, Chinese and many others.

you're too much.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You know something I'm sick of all that racist garbage. I have a lot of respect for many races including the Japanese, Chinese and many others. What I don't like is religious control freaks and cold blooded murders and in my opinion Islam promotes both those things.

You can read into my words whatever you like - most of three time you get it wrong anyway. Have fun - you really are not the good judge of character you think you are.

I'll accept your throwing in of the towel.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You do know that real life isn't like one of those films where a middle class white teacher changes the lives of a bunch of minority students by teaching them about Shakespeare right? You're also really oversimplifying things in order to bash non-white people.

The government is to blame for a rise in gang activity. When the economy is bad crime rates go up, when it's difficult to make a living honestly crime rates go up. In areas with a lot of gang activity it's difficult not to get caught up and dragged into it. I don't think anyone's 'blaming Britain' the government is to blame and if you can't differentiate between the government and Britain itself then that's another worrying issue in itself.

There's a focus on non-white gangs in the media because it riles up people like you who look for reasons to hate on people who aren't white. It's the same reason why Muslim responses against terrorism never get media attention because the media wants to go with the 'Muslims aren't going enough to prevent terrorism' angle because they want to create hysteria against them. Your prejudices are being used against you to suit the media's agenda. It's also funny that you keep banging on about PC when you are one of the most PC members on here but you don't realise it.

Nobody is attempting to give preferential treatment to a certain race, I'm just asking you to open your eyes and realise that the issue of gangs is not a race based issue but you won't do that since you feel the need to justify your hatred rather than accept the fact that you are quite simply racist. I'm talking about gang culture as a whole, I'm acknowledging all it's aspects but you only want to talk about the parts that don't involve white people because the reality of gang culture doesn't reflect the points you are trying to make.

You talk about media propaganda and distortion of truth.... you have learned well.

It suits your agenda, of course, which is anti - government and anti - Brillo. Talk about hysteria! lol

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'll accept your throwing in of the towel.

Believe me if anyone on here could cause me to throw in the towel it wouldn't be you.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

You talk about media propaganda and distortion of truth.... you have learned well.

It suits your agenda, of course, which is anti - government and anti - Brillo.

Not really, I'm not Anti-Government. I just believe that they should be held accountable for their actions. Gang culture is a result of Social issues brought on by economic problems, problems that have been compounded by the current government's arse backwards ideas for the economy. As for your other claim....Anti-Brillo? I wasn't aware she was a political issue.

The fact that you haven't come up with any counterpoints to anything I said only shows that you can't argue against what I've said. You've posted a worthless post to oppose what I've said without actually saying anything of substance. All you've done is read the 'Brillo Playbook of SD tactics' and have opted for the 'I know you are but what am I' defense by trying to twist things on me but failing to do so since you don't understand the context of what's been said. You just oppose it because I said it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Believe if anyone on here could cause me to throw in the towel it wouldn't be you.

She says as she throws in the towel and gives up on the debate.