[user104658]

Originally Posted by smudgie

We voted for Brexit, so Brexit it should be, if a mutual decent deal can't be done then so be it.

Sheer stubbornness? Sticking with a bad decision just because "that's the decision you made" is a really bad idea... On any level, individual or national. It is completely legitimate for the country to have collectively had a rethink. I wouldn't advocate the government going against the result, or "vote after vote until you get your way" as seems to be some people's concern, but having a second referendum to gauge whether the country still feels the same after the dust has settled or if there has been some major shift in opinion is completely legitimate. And sensible.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

but having a second referendum to gauge whether the country still feels the same after the dust has settled or if there has been some major shift in opinion is completely legitimate. And sensible.

A YouGov poll found 70%of Brits just want to "get on with it", there's no need for a second ref.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

A YouGov poll found 70%of Brits just want to "get on with it", there's no need for a second ref.

An informal poll showing that people are sick of politics, elections and votes is in no way any indication that the national opinion hasn't changed. I'm not even saying it HAS changed; just that this is not evidence that it hasn't.

People want to "just get on with it" because of rapidly increasing political apathy.

A double referendum should have been the plan from the start to be honest. From before the first vote. An initial vote to gauge public interest in leaving, followed by seriously looking into the practicalities of leaving if the vote was anywhere over, say, 40% leave and then a final vote a year or 18 months later to gauge final opinion.

In our case the first vote was taken when there was barely any information available on what Brexit actually would entail. People didn't know what they were really voting on, on either side. Again I'm not saying the result would necessarily be any different now, just that the first poll - and what followed with our internal politics - was more than a bit of a shambles, and what we're left with is a government effectively "winging it" through the biggest political shift in three generations. But "we should just get on with it woteva", I guess?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sheer stubbornness? Sticking with a bad decision just because "that's the decision you made" is a really bad idea... On any level, individual or national. It is completely legitimate for the country to have collectively had a rethink. I wouldn't advocate the government going against the result, or "vote after vote until you get your way" as seems to be some people's concern, but having a second referendum to gauge whether the country still feels the same after the dust has settled or if there has been some major shift in opinion is completely legitimate. And sensible.

It still amounts to over-turning a vote if some are opposed to it. What happens if we do and many people are still unhappy and rightly feel they have been conned and start wanting another vote- best of three. It is ridiculous. If we had been told two from the start maybe, but to simply impose another to change the vote is taking liberties and amounts to an undemocratic piss-take.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It still amounts to over-turning a vote if some are opposed to it. What happens if we do and many people are still unhappy and rightly feel they have been conned and start wanting another vote- best of three. It is ridiculous. If we had been told two from the start maybe, but to simply impose another to change the vote is taking liberties and amounts to an undemocratic piss-take.

If as many people still want to leave now as did a year ago then why would the result come out any different?

[UserSince2005]

the EU is so desperate, we dont need them.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

An informal poll showing that people are sick of politics, elections and votes is in no way any indication that the national opinion hasn't changed. I'm not even saying it HAS changed; just that this is not evidence that it hasn't.

People want to "just get on with it" because of rapidly increasing political apathy.

A double referendum should have been the plan from the start to be honest. From before the first vote. An initial vote to gauge public interest in leaving, followed by seriously looking into the practicalities of leaving if the vote was anywhere over, say, 40% leave and then a final vote a year or 18 months later to gauge final opinion.

In our case the first vote was taken when there was barely any information available on what Brexit actually would entail. People didn't know what they were really voting on, on either side. Again I'm not saying the result would necessarily be any different now, just that the first poll - and what followed with our internal politics - was more than a bit of a shambles, and what we're left with is a government effectively "winging it" through the biggest political shift in three generations. But "we should just get on with it woteva", I guess?

Yes, for sure if the result had been so close but the other way around leavers would be livid about it and crying for another vote as it was pretty much 50/50. I remember Farage saying before the result he would keep fighting for more votes if the result was close (obviously when he thought the result would be stay...never mentioned again after the shock result)

I don't think something that important should be decided with such a low margin...

Many people who voted didn't actually know what they were voting for besides 'immigration' and 'money for the NHS'. That goes for both leave and stay voters. Not many knew the full implications of any vote they made...and I still can't believe the amount of lies told during the campaigns and that. Totally wrong.

I would put myself in the 'just get on with it' camp...but only as I am so sick of hearing about the damn thing. Doesn't mean that I changed my mind and want to actually leave now. Still think it is a bad thing for the country and we will regret it, but such is life I guess.

The whole thing was a shambles, no exit plan or anything. No vote should ever have been given until there was a plan for BOTH outcomes. Cameron is a cock. I know most expected a stay vote and he only gave the vote as he was scared of UKIPs popularity, but come the **** on. A huge vote like that with no plans at all, just assuming it will go one way?! Absolute tosser.

[Tom4784]

I want a hard brexit so that people can learn to be smarter with their vote in future after they realise how ****ed they are.

That being said, the delicious irony of Leavers getting a soft brexit after buying into May's 'No deal is better than a bad deal' bull**** and ignoring all the u-turns she's done since she's been in power would be quite satisfying too.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I want a hard brexit so that people can learn to be smarter with their vote in future after they realise how ****ed they are.

That being said, the delicious irony of Leavers getting a soft brexit after buying into May's 'No deal is better than a bad deal' bull**** and ignoring all the u-turns she's done since she's been in power would be quite satisfying too.

Thats a bit cutting off ones nose to spite its face though really.

Also it wouldn't change anything. Look at general election results...so many voted Tory to 'get the scroungers', ended up begin affected/due to be affected by ridiculous changes themselves, yet still bought into the 'scroungers' rhetoric and voted for them again This is from experience rather than anything else. 3 of my friends voted Tory believing that the genuine disabled would not be affected by the ridiculous cuts, and 2 of those people have ended up with their (very disabled) parents losing their DLA and magically being cured by ATOS...one of whom has a terminal illness too and is having to go through tribunal, which they probably in all honesty wont even still be alive to see through til the end...

People (on both sides..this is not exclusive to right wing voters) believe whats in the papers too much. Seemingly not realising that most, if not all, papers have their own agenda.

[Tom4784]

Ignorance can only be cured with experience, people want a hard brexit so I say let them have it and learn from the experience they'll get.

It's spite but it's the only way people will learn. The fact that the Tories failed to achieve a majority is a sign that people CAN learn.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

A YouGov poll found 70%of Brits just want to "get on with it", there's no need for a second ref.

I would vote get the **** on with it too in that poll. Its ridiculous how long theyre dragging this out. It almost seems like delay-tactics from May.

But then I'd obviously vote remain if there was a 2nd 'are u sure' referendum because even if I was uncertain 14 months ago (I wasn't), it'd be crystal clear now (it really is) that remain is the better of the two options.

I'm just bored to **** with it! Everywhere you turn its just people pointing blame at others for the mess, theres never seems to be positive news about it, just maybes, ifs, and buts..

just get on with it is my stance tbh, and then the parties can all start working out how they'd bring us out of its mess, and we can start discussing that instead. I'm just getting second-hand embarrassment for the hardcore leavers atm, they've been right mugged off.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I would vote get the **** on with it too in that poll. Its ridiculous how long theyre dragging this out. It almost seems like delay-tactics from May.

But then I'd obviously vote remain if there was a 2nd 'are u sure' referendum because even if I was uncertain 14 months ago (I wasn't), it'd be crystal clear now (it really is) that remain is the better of the two options.

I'm just bored to **** with it! Everywhere you turn its just people pointing blame at others for the mess, theres never seems to be positive news about it, just maybes, ifs, and buts..

just get on with it is my stance tbh, and then the parties can all start working out how they'd bring us out of its mess, and we can start discussing that instead. I'm just getting second-hand embarrassment for the hardcore leavers atm, they've been right mugged off.

You mean how they can pin the blame onto each other, whilst not actually sorting anything? Which is politics in a nutshell really.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

You mean how they can pin the blame onto each other, whilst not actually sorting anything? Which is politics in a nutshell really.

I think it would be very difficult for anyone to blame the outcome of Brexit on anyone other than the Tories?... Or the GBP which wouldnt go down well, so they'd probably avoid that!
Although you are probably right, the Tories will probably blame everyone else for not agreeing with their every word, and that'll probably become the debate of the year.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I think it would be very difficult for anyone to blame the outcome of Brexit on anyone other than the Tories?... Or the GBP which wouldnt go down well, so they'd probably avoid that!
Although you are probably right, the Tories will probably blame everyone else for not agreeing with their every word, and that'll probably become the debate of the year.

You would think, but I genuinely can see it being all 'we could have had a better outcome if Corbyn would have gone along with what we wanted' or something Whilst some people would obviously know this was bollocks, others would actually think Corbyn was at fault for whatever the Tories do with the cluster****.

I have seen a fair few people who are already moaning about how the other parties are 'making' the Tories **** up brexit, as the other parties will not work with them?! And saying Labour should be backing up May also and basically..not opposing her on anything as Brexit is the most important thing for the entire country. Conveniently forgetting that it was the Tpries who called the ridiculous election in the middle of the brexit rubbish...and all because of arrogance and thinking they would obliterate Labour.

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

the EU is so desperate, we dont need them.

The EU is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Underscore

The EU is the best thing since sliced bread.

sorry sliced white bread is banned under new EU guidelines, its racist and sizeist and to protect the German baking industry we must import bread of colour from Dresden at Ł5 a loaf.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Underscore

The EU is the best thing since sliced bread.

Why, what's so great about it?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ignorance can only be cured with experience, people want a hard brexit so I say let them have it and learn from the experience they'll get.

It's spite but it's the only way people will learn. The fact that the Tories failed to achieve a majority is a sign that people CAN learn.

Learn what. As experts on both sides have differing opinions on the outcome, and it hasn't been done before, no-one really knows what will happen for sure. Many think they do but that doesn't mean they are right. The only way to know for sure is to do it.

The Tories failed to get a majority but they still did better than Labour despite all the broken promises.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Learn what. As experts on both sides have differing opinions on the outcome, and it hasn't been done before, no-one really knows what will happen for sure. Many think they do but that doesn't mean they are right. The only way to know for sure is to do it.

The Tories failed to get a majority but they still did better than Labour despite all the broken promises.

The foolishness of voting in ignorance. Blind faith isn't going to change a thing.

Your last sentence seems like a petty jibe to me, I don't support Labour, I support whatever party alligns best with my views at the time.

Crowing on about Labour won't change the fact that the Tories went from a strong Majority Government to having to make deals to form a Minority one.

[Denver]

I wonder if the same people feel the same in 10 years when the EU is no more.

They are corrupts and thieves

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Adam.

I wonder if the same people feel the same in 10 years when the EU is no more.

They are corrupts and thieves

They are Adam. They have certainly exposed themselves as the immature, spiteful, bitter and corrupt idiots that they are. They are the embarrassment.

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Why, what's so great about it?

Let me summise:

- Access to the single market
- 43 years of peace
- ERASMUS+ opportunities for students to live and work abroad
- Action on climate change with investment in renewable energies
- European Medicine Agency
- Clean air quality
- International Academic Collaboration
- European Arrest Warrant
- European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development
- EU Export Market (54% of UK goods and 40% of UK services)
- Equal Pay Laws
- Clean Beaches
- The Customs Union
- Cheaper Air Travel
- Fisheries Funding
- Consumer Rights Protection
- Animal Rights Protection
- Infrastructure Funding
- Protected Status for UK foods
- Research Funding
- Biodiversity Strategy
- Cheaper and easier holidays

If you wish for me to elaborate and extend on any points I can.

All or most of this will go. The only way to save at least half of this will be if Theresa May negotiates a good deal (unlikely) or if we have a second ref and the deal gets trashed and renegotiated democratically.

Also I forgot to add EURATOM.

Not all of the EU is bad.

[Underscore]

And I really don't get the mantra that we all need to jump on one boat and get behind Team Brexit, no. Not going to happen. Proof of that was Tories flopping.

I still have my EU flag waving outside my house.

[Underscore]

And before you all scream I'm Labour, I'm not. I'm a Liberal Democrat.

Although I was Tory till Brexit happened

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Underscore

Let me summise:

- Access to the single market
- 43 years of peace
- ERASMUS+ opportunities for students to live and work abroad
- Action on climate change with investment in renewable energies
- European Medicine Agency
- Clean air quality
- International Academic Collaboration
- European Arrest Warrant
- European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development
- EU Export Market (54% of UK goods and 40% of UK services)
- Equal Pay Laws
- Clean Beaches
- The Customs Union
- Cheaper Air Travel
- Fisheries Funding
- Consumer Rights Protection
- Animal Rights Protection
- Infrastructure Funding
- Protected Status for UK foods
- Research Funding
- Biodiversity Strategy
- Cheaper and easier holidays

If you wish for me to elaborate and extend on any points I can.

All or most of this will go. The only way to save at least half of this will be if Theresa May negotiates a good deal (unlikely) or if we have a second ref and the deal gets trashed and renegotiated democratically.

Also I forgot to add EURATOM.

Not all of the EU is bad.

The vote was democratic - trying to overturn that vote because you don't like it is undemocratic.