[Brillopad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40015269

Makes an interesting read.

[Toy Soldier]

Interesting indeed. You said in another thread that you generally don't have a problem with immigration when those immigrating don't have vast cultural or religious differences with British people (I.e. Muslims).

Yet here you post an article that outlines the fact that the vast majority in the increase in immigration to the UK is from European nations such as Poland - almost exclusively Christian or non-religious with Christian ancestry - and a country which traditionally scores very highly on things like gender equality, etc.

But you still have a major problem with immigration...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Interesting indeed. You said in another thread that you generally don't have a problem with immigration when those immigrating don't have vast cultural or religious differences with British people (I.e. Muslims).

Yet here you post an article that outlines the fact that the vast majority in the increase in immigration to the UK is from European nations such as Poland - almost exclusively Christian or non-religious with Christian ancestry - and a country which traditionally scores very highly on things like gender equality, etc.

But you still have a major problem with immigration...

Whilst adding to the strain on our public services, housing etc I do. Simple practicalities. Whatever your feeling on the government's part in that, it is what it is and the more people the more pressure on our already failing public services. GPs are now threatening to close their books to new patients which in turn will turn A&E services into chaos.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Whilst adding to the strain on our public services, housing etc I do. Simple practicalities. Whatever your feeling on the government's part in that, it is what it is and the more people the more pressure on our already failing public services. GPs are now threatening to close their books to new patients which in turn will turn A&E services into chaos.

The fact that the government is grossly mismanaging public services has very little, if anything, to do with immigration.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The fact that the government is grossly mismanaging public services has very little, if anything, to do with immigration.

Yup, immigration is the excuse, not the cause.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Whilst adding to the strain on our public services, housing etc I do. Simple practicalities. Whatever your feeling on the government's part in that, it is what it is and the more people the more pressure on our already failing public services. GPs are now threatening to close their books to new patients which in turn will turn A&E services into chaos.

So you believe that A&E and GP surgeries are in trouble because of immigration?

But you work for the NHS... surely you have an idea of what's going on. I've just pulled away from the NHS and I know exactly why its failing.


When the government unleashed the competition law on the NHS it meant all new contracts had to open up to bids from the corporate sector. During this same period, the government was deliberately underfunding established GP’s.

This means anyone, providing they have the funds to purchase, can run a GP for profit service whilst hiding behind the NHS logo. When corporates own something like GP surgeries, instead of it remaining a much-needed community resource with the priority of caring for its patients, it becomes just another corporatization overly concerned with profit margins.

Services have been cut to a bare minimum. Most surgeries that used to have 5 or 6 GP’s practicing at any one time, now only have one or two GP’s (who are usually lower paid juniors) per surgery and make up the rest with nurse practitioners, who’s salaries are more cost effective.

Now here’s the problem… A GP can only have so many patients on his books and gets subsidized by the government for each one of those patients. When you have a company that’s fired most of its GP’s but kept its patient numbers on, it risks, if caught, having to pay out expensive legal fees and heavy fines and this is what’s happening now. Private practices under the guise of the NHS are not following the same complexities old GP practices had to follow and suddenly, those at the top are cracking the legal whip.

Its rumored that this was the government planned all along. It would sell off as much as the NHS as possible whilst keeping the NHS name and then allow those for profit businesses to go under. Plan B. The NHS simply doesn't work and we all need to start buying private medical insurance. I'll give it 7 years.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So you believe that A&E and GP surgeries are in trouble because of immigration?

But you work for the NHS... surely you have an idea of what's going on. I've just pulled away from the NHS and I know exactly why its failing.


When the government unleashed the competition law on the NHS it meant all new contracts had to open up to bids from the corporate sector. During this same period, the government was deliberately underfunding established GP’s.

This means anyone, providing they have the funds to purchase, can run a GP for profit service whilst hiding behind the NHS logo. When corporates own something like GP surgeries, instead of it remaining a much-needed community resource with the priority of caring for its patients, it becomes just another corporatization overly concerned with profit margins.

Services have been cut to a bare minimum. Most surgeries that used to have 5 or 6 GP’s practicing at any one time, now only have one or two GP’s (who are usually lower paid juniors) per surgery and make up the rest with nurse practitioners, who’s salaries are more cost effective.

Now here’s the problem… A GP can only have so many patients on his books and gets subsidized by the government for each one of those patients. When you have a company that’s fired most of its GP’s but kept its patient numbers on, it risks, if caught, having to pay out expensive legal fees and heavy fines and this is what’s happening now. Private practices under the guise of the NHS are not following the same complexities old GP practices had to follow and suddenly, those at the top are cracking the legal whip.

Its rumored that this was the government planned all along. It would sell off as much as the NHS as possible whilst keeping the NHS name and then allow those for profit businesses to go under. Plan B. The NHS simply doesn't work and we all need to start buying private medical insurance. I'll give it 7 years.

I said it is what is is whatever the cause. Then add x amount of immigration on top simply adds to the burden.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I said it is what is is whatever the cause. Then add x amount of immigration on top simply adds to the burden.

No, its got nothing to do with immigration.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

No, its got nothing to do with immigration.

How can nearly 1,000,000 extra people using our public health services not add to the burden. Whatever the main cause that adds to the problem.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

How can nearly 1,000,000 extra people using our public health services not add to the burden. Whatever the main cause that adds to the problem.

How many people from other countries work for the NHS?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How many people from other countries work for the NHS?

True!

The thing is, these people tend to come over here as workers on PAYE. They pay their taxes and national insurance which of course pays for services needed, including medical treatment.

Many come over as students and pay generally more student fees than the British students.

I'm sure Brillo believes that 1 million Europeans come over here and sponge off us. That's simply not the case. Statistics show that European migrants pay for themselves and actually bring more money into our economy than take out.

This 'small state' mindset is alarming because it accepts we don't reinvest for growth and means we blame everyone but the government for lack of investment.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

True!

The thing is, these people tend to come over here as workers on PAYE. They pay their taxes and national insurance which of course pays for services needed, including medical treatment.

Many come over as students and pay generally more student fees than the British students.

I'm sure Brillo believes that 1 million Europeans come over here and sponge off us. That's simply not the case. Statistics show that European migrants pay for themselves and actually bring more money into our economy than take out.

This 'small state' mindset is alarming because it accepts we don't reinvest for growth and means we blame everyone but the government for lack of investment.

True and the govt are more than happy for the electorate to blame everyone and their dog but themselves. They have been proven to use the media as a tool to demonise subsections of society for generations and yet the penny never seems to drop fully, it's as though the is establishment is entirely infallible :/