[bitontheslide]

its not a legal referendum, so it should not be held, its that simple. Scotland can't hold a referendum without the approval of the UK government, and if they held one without permission, it would be deemed illegal too.

It may seem like an overreaction by the Spanish government, but they are effectively snuffing out an illegal peasant revolt. Perfectly acceptable for them to take action to prevent the illegal activity.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm not sure what you mean here, the canary has on it's UK page up to date relevant reports on a wide range of topics including politics, the NHS, homelessness and issues relating to the DWP... I fail to see why you find that so distasteful seeing as social justice is a topic usually of relative importance to you.

Never mind, if you don't find the site useful then you are welcome to that view

Look at the article you linked. Hell, just look at the headline.

'Nicola Sturgeon’s government just waded into a democratic crisis in Spain, while Theresa May is silent'

The story is about how Nicola Sturgeon's administration has commented on the Catalonia situation but the Canary's taken the focus from that in what should have been a report on Scotland's stance to turn it into a commentary on Theresa May. They are passing off their agenda as news and that's why, like Breitbart, The Canary is utter trash.

I care about Social Justice, which is why I'm opposed to The Canary as much as Breitbart because, while the latter tries to discount it, the former undermines it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Look at the article you linked. Hell, just look at the headline.

'Nicola Sturgeon’s government just waded into a democratic crisis in Spain, while Theresa May is silent'

The story is about how Nicola Sturgeon's administration has commented on the Catalonia situation but the Canary's taken the focus from that in what should have been a report on Scotland's stance to turn it into a commentary on Theresa May. They are passing off their agenda as news and that's why, like Breitbart, The Canary is utter trash.

I care about Social Justice, which is why I'm opposed to The Canary as much as Breitbart because, while the latter tries to discount it, the former undermines it.

Why ignore facts? The fact is other leaders of political parties Scottish, Welsh and Danish MPs are noted as condemning the action..and may isn't. That isn't undermining anything it's highlighting the complacency shown by the current govt to the attack on democracy and civil liberty.

Personally I appreciate the honesty, we should be condemning the heavy handed tactics, but guess what? We aren't.

[Greg!]

They've voted yes to independence

Over 2million (90%) voted yes. The turnout was 42% but it doesn't include 700,000 ballot papers that were taken by the police.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Greg!

They've voted yes to independence

Over 2million (90%) voted yes. The turnout was 42% but it doesn't include 700,000 ballot papers that were taken by the police.

It doesn't really matter though, it was already known that there's an 80 to 90% support for independence from various stats and polls, the referendum was just to get a more official declaration of that figure. Spain won't let them take independence... That's confirmed more than ever with their response in the last few days.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It doesn't really matter though, it was already known that there's an 80 to 90% support for independence from various stats and polls, the referendum was just to get a more official declaration of that figure. Spain won't let them take independence... That's confirmed more than ever with their response in the last few days.

Since when? This was the most recent polling

Support for Catalan independence has dropped just months before a planned referendum on breaking away from Spain, a new survey suggests.

The Centre for Opinion Studies, the polling organization of the regional government, released new figures showing the percentage of people supporting a Catalan independent state dropped to 41.1 percent in June from 44.3 percent in March.

The number of people who oppose a split from Spain rose slightly to 49.4 percent from 48.5 percent in March.

http://www.politico.eu/article/catal...or-drops-poll/

It's not surprising that 90% voted in favour in a referendum that was called for, organised by and attended by those who support independence while those who oppose independence disagreed with there being a referendum in the first place

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Since when? This was the most recent polling



It's not surprising that 90% voted in favour in a referendum that was called for, organised by and attended by those who support independence while those who oppose independence disagreed with there being a referendum in the first place

Possibly, I agree that independence voters would be much more likely to turn up to vote, given the official stance that the vote was illegitimate and to be disregarded anyway... And the same may be true of earlier polls and studies.

Then again, one has to wonder why the Spanish government have had such a disproportionate and violent response if they actually believed that the vote would go their way? The sensible option would have been to let the vote go through and use it to point out that support for unity is high. Seems like they weren't confident in the result and - honestly - given the heavy handed response and police brutality that has gone on over the last few days from police forces drafted in from other regions - I would be very surprised if support for independence hasn't increased.

Surely no unionist citizen of Catalonia is sitting watching their friends, coworkers and neighbours being fly-kicked and bashed with batons by armoured Spanish police and thinking "Yeah, this is fine, probably deserve it".

Though actually nothing would surprise me these days. If it was the UK people would find a way to justify it. Brand the voters "thugs" or "rioters" or something... The usual script.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Possibly, I agree that independence voters would be much more likely to turn up to vote, given the official stance that the vote was illegitimate and to be disregarded anyway... And the same may be true of earlier polls and studies.

Then again, one has to wonder why the Spanish government have had such a disproportionate and violent response if they actually believed that the vote would go their way? The sensible option would have been to let the vote go through and use it to point out that support for unity is high. Seems like they weren't confident in the result and - honestly - given the heavy handed response and police brutality that has gone on over the last few days from police forces drafted in from other regions - I would be very surprised if support for independence hasn't increased.

Surely no unionist citizen of Catalonia is sitting watching their friends, coworkers and neighbours being fly-kicked and bashed with batons by armoured Spanish police and thinking "Yeah, this is fine, probably deserve it".

Though actually nothing would surprise me these days. If it was the UK people would find a way to justify it. Brand the voters "thugs" or "rioters" or something... The usual script.

Maybe not but I also doubt its enough to convert them to independence overnight. Most probably see fault on both sides - the Spanish government for a heavy handed response and the Catalan government for being so obsessed with secession that they insisted on this vote when they knew that it would be declared illegal and that this would be the outcome. The fact it looks like they are planning to use this result to declare independence should seriously worry everyone in Spain that they are going to end up like Ukraine.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Maybe not but I also doubt its enough to convert them to independence overnight. Most probably see fault on both sides - the Spanish government for a heavy handed response and the Catalan government for being so obsessed with secession that they insisted on this vote when they knew that it would be declared illegal and that this would be the outcome. The fact it looks like they are planning to use this result to declare independence should seriously worry everyone in Spain that they are going to end up like Ukraine.

No, no they won't. Ask yourself why if the vote was illegal and won't stand as a verified referendum then why the very expensive militia involvement that has ruined Spains reputation forever as seen via the media worldwide?

Why not just let them vote? ...

Catalonia will only end up like the Ukraine if Spain continue acting like Russia.

[parmnion]

The way i see it is the catalonians who wanted independence turned up to vote for independence.

The people of catalonia who dont want independence (not far off 50% of the population btw) seen it as the waste of time that it was and had thier siesta.

The po po should have done the same and let the idiots get on with a pointless ballot.


Jeremy will be up in the spanish hills in his plus fours, rifle in hand patting the backs of the rebel catalonian resistence within 5 years.

[parmnion]

But yesterday they spoke...and it seems to be working for now.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

But yesterday they spoke...and it seems to be working for now.

Unless yesterday was 'staged' by Spain to make themselves look better after their brutality.

For all we know most of those people could have been Spanish and not Catalans at all.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Unless yesterday was 'staged' by Spain to make themselves look better after their brutality.

For all we know most of those people could have been Spanish and not Catalans at all.

And the protestors from last weekend might have been turkish...

[DemolitionRed]

If the police hadn't been so brutal, nobody would be talking much about this.