[Tom4784]

Kim Kardashian has also been catching heat for dressing up as Aaliyah which I think, in her case, is unwarranted since she only dressed up as her and didn't use prosethetics or black face to look like her.

It's the use of prosthetics and changing of his skin tone that made Walliams' costume offensive.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

What's my issue?

Read the thread.

It's like Emily Parr in BB, she didn't intend any offence at all but it didn't change the fact that what she said was completely inappropriate and offensive on a few levels.


If you find the likes of blackface and yellowface "nothing" that's your business but that doesn't make my viewpoint any less valid.

The two examples are not comparable, I remember a time it was hilarious to dress as bin laden... that involves changing skintone and accentuating the nose a tad, where was the uproar?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The two examples are not comparable, I remember a time it was hilarious to dress as bin laden... that involves changing skintone and accentuating the nose a tad, where was the uproar?

I don't recall you making a thread about that.

I also don't recall that being popular or funny.

Maybe that's the issue here, you don't see a problem with Blackface and find it humorous.

The two examples were to compare situations where something offensive is done but without actual intent from the person doing it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I don't recall you making a thread about that.

I also don't recall that being popular or funny.

Maybe that's the issue here, you don't see a problem with Blackface and find it humorous.

The two examples were to compare situations where something offensive is done but without actual intent from the person doing it.

Please don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't make this thread and yet I'm commenting, it was very popular at one time therefore many must have found it amusing.

Again you can't compare racist slurs to this satirical dig at one dictator in my opinion.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Please don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't make this thread and yet I'm commenting, it was very popular at one time therefore many must have found it amusing.

Again you can't compare racist slurs to this satirical dig at one dictator in my opinion.

We're not talking about the dig at a dictator. We're talking about him changing his skin tone and facial features to mimic an Asian.

I haven't put any words in your mouth. You called it humorous. Not me.

I've already pointed out the comparison I was making which was about intent not always having to be there for something to be completely inappropriate and ignorant.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

We're not talking about the dig at a dictator. We're talking about him changing his skin tone and facial features to mimic an Asian.

I haven't put any words in your mouth. You called it humorous. Not me.

I've already pointed out the comparison I was making which was about intent not always having to be there for something to be completely inappropriate and ignorant.

You are intentionally misquoting me to fit in with your ridiculous 'yellowface' comment.
The dictator is Asian,that's just a given to look like him you have to look Asian...By no stretch of the imagination could that be seen as intentionally or unintentionally offensive to every Asian on the plant.

I think it's best to maintain some perspective here.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The dictator is Asian,that's just a given to look like him you have to look Asian...

Well to be fair, that's not entirely true, I don't think his costume would have been any less effective without the yellow makeup or eye prosthetics. Walliams doesn't really have "big round eyes" to start with, and the costume + wig makes him look plenty like Kim Jong-un. It's not like anyone would have been like "I'm so confused, who is he meant to be??"... the hair is pretty iconic .

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well to be fair, that's not entirely true, I don't think his costume would have been any less effective without the yellow makeup or eye prosthetics. Walliams doesn't really have "big round eyes" to start with, and the costume + wig makes him look plenty like Kim Jong-un. It's not like anyone would have been like "I'm so confused, who is he meant to be??"... the hair is pretty iconic .

What if you wan't to look exactly like someone you don't have to recreate their features on yourself?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You are intentionally misquoting me to fit in with your ridiculous 'yellowface' comment.
The dictator is Asian,that's just a given to look like him you have to look Asian...By no stretch of the imagination could that be seen as intentionally or unintentionally offensive to every Asian on the plant.

I think it's best to maintain some perspective here.

I'm not misquoting anything. You're telling me it's perfectly fine because Walliams doesn't intend to be racist and is attempting humour.

It's not a ridiculous yellow face comment, it's perfectly valid. You have yet to give me a reason why it is not.

Blackface would rightly not be accepted, so why should this?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I'm not misquoting anything. You're telling me it's perfectly fine because Walliams doesn't intend to be racist and is attempting humour.

It's not a ridiculous yellow face comment, it's perfectly valid. You have yet to give me a reason why it is not.

Blackface would rightly not be accepted, so why should this?

As I have said before blackface is known to be used as a general racial stereotype, this is a visual representation of one man.
Have I to repeat this any more?

Are you telling me it's not fine because you have determined whether intentional or not Walliams is being racist?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

As I have said before blackface is known to be used as a general racial stereotype, this is a visual representation of one man.
Have I to repeat this any more?

Are you telling me it's not fine because you have determined whether intentional or not Walliams is being racist?

There has to be intent to be racist? So, I could shout the 'n' word at a black man but I don't mean it in a racist way so it's not racist.

Maybe you should repeat yourself.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

this is a visual representation of one man.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

that's just a given to look like him you have to look Asian

So, is he specifically one man, or using makeup to mimic "Asian"?

Because you don't need prosthetics or to alter his skin tone to know who he's dressed as.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

As I have said before blackface is known to be used as a general racial stereotype

And yellowface isn't?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

There has to be intent to be racist? So, I could shout the 'n' word at a black man but I don't mean it in a racist way so it's not racist.

Maybe you should repeat yourself.





So, is he specifically one man, or using makeup to mimic "Asian"?

Because you don't need prosthetics or to alter his skin tone to know who he's dressed as.



And yellowface isn't?

Blackface is just that ....a black face.
This is very specifically Kim Jong-un, I don't know how to explain that in any simpler terms for you.
He is Asian, that is a fact.
As the joker smileys have come out I'll leave it there, I've stated my point till I'm blue in the face anyway (no offence intended)

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Blackface is just that ....a black face.
This is very specifically Kim Jong-un, I don't know how to explain that in any simpler terms for you.
He is Asian, that is a fact.
As the joker smileys have come out I'll leave it there, I've stated my point till I'm blue in the face anyway (no offence intended)

I've clearly asked you what makes black face unacceptable to you, and yellow face is.

You clearly don't have an answer because there isn't one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I've clearly asked you what makes black face unacceptable to you, and yellow face is.

You clearly don't have an answer because there isn't one.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I would have thought it obvious by now that I don't consider this 'yellowface' as it isn't a generalised representation of any one ethnicity.... He's Kim Jong-un.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I would have thought it obvious by now that I don't consider this 'yellowface' as it isn't a generalised representation of any one ethnicity.... He's Kim Jong-un.

In what way is it not generalised?

Kim Jong-un has the most unique skin tone on the planet to not be associated with any specific race? REALLY?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What if you wan't to look exactly like someone you don't have to recreate their features on yourself?

He doesn't look "exactly like him", he looks like David Walliams with eye prosthetics and a wig. I'm saying it would have been just as effective as a Kim Jong costume without the eyes and makeup.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

As I have said before blackface is known to be used as a general racial stereotype, this is a visual representation of one man.

So if someone was to dress up as, let's say, Frank Bruno... It would be OK for them to black up and slap on a big ol' nose prosthetic?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So if someone was to dress up as, let's say, Frank Bruno... It would be OK for them to black up and slap on a big ol' nose prosthetic?

So you think a black man has a big ol’ nose - sounds racist!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So you think a black man has a big ol’ nose - sounds racist!

No, but Frank Bruno does have quite a wide nose, and that's my point really. I think blackface + nose widening prosthetics to look like Frank Bruno would get a lot of flak... So why is yellow makeup + eye prosthetics any different .

[jet]

If some people didn't have the opportunity to be offended at least a half dozen times a day they'd lose the will to live.

[Marsh.]

Which doesn't add anything to the discussion. Instead of rubbishing others opinions, offer your own as to why you believe them to be wrong.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

In what way is it not generalised?

Kim Jong-un has the most unique skin tone on the planet to not be associated with any specific race? REALLY?

It's not generalised because it's specific, specifically Kim Jong-un.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So if someone was to dress up as, let's say, Frank Bruno... It would be OK for them to black up and slap on a big ol' nose prosthetic?

Why would anyone dress as Frank Bruno for halloween?
The point was he was dressing as a dictator, it's political satire and nothing else.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's not generalised because it's specific, specifically Kim Jong-un.

We're talking about his use of yellowface. That's not specifically Kim Jong-un.

If someone dressed as Mike Tyson and painted their face black would you defend it as "specific to Mike Tyson"?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The point was he was dressing as a dictator, it's political satire and nothing else.

Yes, very true. And looking back I don't think many (if anyone) are arguing he couldn't dress as Kim Jong-un. And that he wasn't ripping the piss out of a specific dictator.

But drawing the line at his use of makeup and prosthetics to portray the "yellow face" stereotype.