[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

We are sort of self-regulated because of the way each infraction creates a new thread in the Mod sub-forum so everyone can see it and question it if they wish. There have been plenty of times that an infraction has been reversed after a discussion because we're not one homogeneous voice that always thinks the same thing and sees everything the same way. We do actually disagree with each other quite often in there but normally settle on the majority vote. Plus there's always the Admins above the Mods who can act as a final voice if need be.

That's very helpful, MTVN. Thanks for taking the time.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Obviously I'm being sthilly with the phrasing but the point is still a valid one; the buck has to stop somewhere. You're asking who moderates the moderators but if someone did, who would be watching them, and so on.

We're not talking about the CIA here. We're talking about TiBB. MTVN has kindly thrown some light on it for me.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

We're not talking about the CIA here. We're talking about TiBB. MTVN has kindly thrown some light on it for me.

Well that's sort of my point too, I guess... As fond as I am of TiBB, it's not a professional organisation, it's really a large-ish hobby site (that's not intended to be disrespectful of admins, it just is what it is) and we therefore can't expect a professional service. Everyone is going to have decisions that they disagree with of that seem unfair... I've had a couple of rants myself recently, and I supposedly get special treatment .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well that's sort of my point too, I guess... As fond as I am of TiBB, it's not a professional organisation, it's really a large-ish hobby site (that's not intended to be disrespectful of admins, it just is what it is) and we therefore can't expect a professional service. Everyone is going to have decisions that they disagree with of that seem unfair... I've had a couple of rants myself recently, and I supposedly get special treatment .

Yes, I understand that and I agree, largely. The trouble is that when something happens that an FM feels is unfair, there seems to be nowhere to go. And that's not sustainable. It's moderated by amateurs in the art of conflict resolution and people management -and there's no offence intended there at all, there needs to be moderators and unless we all pay a huge subscription they will be amateurs, is all I mean) who get it wrong sometimes. There needs to be a way to appeal without getting on Mods' nerves, something that works for everyone otherwise people get frustrated and they leave. We've seen that.

Anyhoo, I've had my say here. Don't want to drag it out to the death...

[Tom4784]

Appeals didn't work before and I doubt we'll ever try it again.

We had hundreds of 'appeals' and only a handful of them were actually valid. The rest were people trying to undo obviously deserved infractions and being petty. We don't need an appeals system, it's easy enough to PM a mod and explain diplomatically why you think an infraction is wrong (when it's genuinely wrong and not 'He insulted ME first!') and if that's the case it'll be reversed.

[Niamh.]

I really think you're over thinking this Livia. The forum is quiet because BB isn't popular anymore and forums are kind of dying out too in general with other types of social media taking over. People have always came and went from the forum, in the past it wasn't as noticeable because there was always 10 more new members to replace them. But you don't want to hear that I'm sure, it seems to suit your agenda to just blame us for everything these days which is a bit disappointing

[Tom4784]

As for the whole report thing a while back, reporting doesn't grant the reporter immunity or result in an instant infraction for whoever got reported. Quite often, if I'm looking at a report, I'll see that both sides are in the wrong and infract both, or sometimes just the reporter if it's an invalid report and they've broken the rules in the thread themselves.

If you are going to report someone, make sure it's an actual valid reason beyond 'I don't like this person' and make sure you aren't breaking the rules either because we'll try to read as much as the thread as possible beyond the reported post to understand the situation and context better so we'll see any further rule breaks.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I really think you're over thinking this Livia. The forum is quiet because BB isn't popular anymore and forums are kind of dying out too in general with other types of social media taking over. People have always came and went from the forum, in the past it wasn't as noticeable because there was always 10 more new members to replace them. But you don't want to hear that I'm sure, it seems to suit your agenda to just blame us for everything these days which is a bit disappointing

That's quite unfair, Niamh. I have no agenda. I feel quite sad that there can't be a discussion like this without being accused of having an agenda or being told, if you don't like the way we do things, you can leave. It does nothing to help the fact that the forum is quieter and we'd like new members to come, but also regulars to stay. And for the record I'm not laying the fact that people have left the forum squarely at the feet of the mods so I don't want to hear "I'm sure you don't want to hear that because you have an agenda...." I have no agenda.

And your reason for people leaving is quite plausible. Except I don't agree that it's as simple as that.

Anyhoo, I've said how I feel.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've never read how the mods are moderated.

And no, I don't pop in to snipe at you. I pop in because I've been here a while, and despite the fact that a lot of my friends have given up and sodded off, stupidly, I still like this forum and the majority of people in it, despite all it's many flaws. And to be honest, Josy, there isn't much of a chance to speak about this stuff. And even when there is I'm told (and I'm paraphrasing) if you don't like it you can **** off.

Im actually curious to know who ive told to leave the forum? since its not something in the habit of doing and who it is thats actually left the forum due to this.

No there isnt much of a chance to speak about it unless you contact someone through pm or the contact us option and actually detail what your grievance actually is, sniping in threads about mods and rules doesnt help anyone or solve anything.

Or like previously stated we sometimes do allow threads like this to remain open so members get can get things off thier chest.

Again you arent being told to leave or **** off or whatever else but the rules wont be changed for the sake of keeping one member from leaving the forum and if you dont like the rules or the way mods moderate then it really confuses me why you would stick around just to pop on and be nippy towards us every now and then yes youve said you have friends here but honestly any post ive seen from you lately can be described by the above, and im not the only one to pick up on it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

As for the whole report thing a while back, reporting doesn't grant the reporter immunity or result in an instant infraction for whoever got reported. Quite often, if I'm looking at a report, I'll see that both sides are in the wrong and infract both, or sometimes just the reporter if it's an invalid report and they've broken the rules in the thread themselves.

If you are going to report someone, make sure it's an actual valid reason beyond 'I don't like this person' and make sure you aren't breaking the rules either because we'll try to read as much as the thread as possible beyond the reported post to understand the situation and context better so we'll see any further rule breaks.

Of course, if you're involved in that heated discussion yourself, and have clearly taken a side, it's difficult for a mod to disengage from that and be impartial.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Josy

Im actually curious to know who ive told to leave the forum? since its not something in the habit of doing and who it is thats actually left the forum due to this.

No there isnt much of a chance to speak about it unless you contact someone through pm or the contact us option and actually detail what your grievance actually is, sniping in threads about mods and rules doesnt help anyone or solve anything.

Or like previously stated we sometimes do allow threads like this to remain open so members get can get things off thier chest.

Again you arent being told to leave or **** off or whatever else but the rules wont be changed for the sake of keeping one member from leaving the forum and if you dont like the rules or the way mods moderate then it really confuses me why you would stick around just to pop on and be nippy towards us every now and then yes youve said you have friends here but honestly any post ive seen from you lately can be described by the above, and im not the only one to pick up on it.

Well... firstly,

Originally Posted by Josy

At the end of the day Livia, if you dont like the forum or the way its run you dont have to post, but you agreed to the rules when you signed up.

That's where you said it. I did say I was paraphrasing.

Well, I'm flattered that I've been the subject of your conversations. If my posts have been snippy it's not my intention, maybe I just needed to be able to say something about it without being ignored or infracted for mentioning it in a post. I can honestly say that I haven't ever had that much interaction with you personally, Josy.

I'm not expecting your to change the rules, I never said that. On the whole they're very sensible. But like I say... people interpret them differently.

Anyway, I was finished because I'd said what I needed to. I had to reply to the points you made, and that Niamh made. I've leave it here.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Livia

Of course, if you're involved in that heated discussion yourself, and have clearly taken a side, it's difficult for a mod to disengage from that and be impartial.

I think many would agree with you on that. It is clearly obvious from past threads that that is the case, not to mention sheer common sense.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well... firstly,


That's where you said it. I did say I was paraphrasing.

Well, I'm flattered that I've been the subject of your conversations. If my posts have been snippy it's not my intention, maybe I just needed to be able to say something about it without being ignored or infracted for mentioning it in a post. I can honestly say that I haven't ever had that much interaction with you personally, Josy.

I'm not expecting your to change the rules, I never said that. On the whole they're very sensible. But like I say... people interpret them differently.

Anyway, I was finished because I'd said what I needed to. I had to reply to the points you made, and that Niamh made. I've leave it here.

I never told you to leave I said you dont have to post there's a difference, to which you replied that many have taken my advice previously which isnt true...

I also explained a lot of moderation stuff which you ignored yet when someone else posted saying pretty much the same you say it was helpful.

[Kazanne]

Who chooses the mods in the first place and do you ever 'sack' one if they are deemed unsuitable ?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Let it go now!, I don't mix my words.

There's nothing for me to let go.

You're the one who can't keep my name out of your posts.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's not really the point.

But there is no point to be made

[thesheriff443]

If you take things personally they become personal.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Josy

I never told you to leave I said you dont have to post

I find that a bit contradictory tbh as when posters who moan about certain threads or how many someone is posting refuse to do the obvious and ignore them and not enter the threads, they have been supported by at least one mod I believe.

If people don’t have to post they also don’t have to go into a thread they object to. Can’t really have one without the other.

[Beso]

What about these known multis....were the original banned member given life bans or not?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

But there is no point to be made

You suggested that there's no point to debate if you know that the debate you're having isn't going to "change the world" or change anything in the world. I respectfully disagree with that position . You don't have to change anything for there to be a point.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Who chooses the mods in the first place and do you ever 'sack' one if they are deemed unsuitable ?

the other mods and admin decide, one mod that I know of was sacked, I think his name was Rory and he was sacked for giving his log in details to another member

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

the other mods and admin decide, one mod that I know of was sacked, I think his name was Rory and he was sacked for giving his log in details to another member

Couldn't we have a system where we can know which mod gives us infractions and bans then we could PM them if we thought something was unfair,as Livia said there is just no one or where to complain, so resentment sets in.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Couldn't we have a system where we can know which mod gives us infractions and bans then we could PM them if we thought something was unfair,as Livia said there is just no one or where to complain, so resentment sets in.

But you can already PM a mod about your infraction, most of the time if you query an infraction with a Mod that didn't give it to you they post your PM in the Infraction thread so the mod who gave it can explain etc It wouldn't be helpful to us to have our name pop up when we infract someone, we get enough grief off people as it is

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Josy

I never told you to leave I said you dont have to post there's a difference, to which you replied that many have taken my advice previously which isnt true...

I also explained a lot of moderation stuff which you ignored yet when someone else posted saying pretty much the same you say it was helpful.

The first part is semantics.

Secondly, you never explained anything to me. I haven't trawled right through this thread because I'm working as well as being here. And I found what MTVN posted to be new information to me and thanked him. Had you posted the same thing and I saw it, I would have thanked you. And Niamh is explaining how any mod can be approached and it then shared between other mods. I didn't know that. I stupidly replied to the PM that arrives starting with details of your infraction and ending, strangely, with "Cheers!".

I have nothing against you personally. And moreover, I think it was enlightened to allow this thread to evolve.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The first part is semantics.

Secondly, you never explained anything to me. I haven't trawled right through this thread because I'm working as well as being here. And I found what MTVN posted to be new information to me and thanked him. Had you posted the same thing and I saw it, I would have thanked you. And Niamh is explaining how any mod can be approached and it then shared between other mods. I didn't know that. I stupidly replied to the PM that arrives starting with details of your infraction and ending, strangely, with "Cheers!".

I have nothing against you personally. And moreover, I think it was enlightened to allow this thread to evolve.

Replying to the infraction message only gets back to myself, James and Vicky because it goes directly to the TiBB Staff account we then receive an email, so it is better to private message any mod or admin for a reply although if I do get the email I often go to the infraction thread and post it and reply to the sender if needed.