[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by lostalex

If you don't believe that Jesus was God then you aren't a christian... the bible makes it very clear the difference between prophets that spoke the word of God, and the actual EVENT of GOD coming to earth. That's the whole point of the new testament. and if you don't believe the new testament, then you're basically just a Jew. to put it bluntly.

it's been a while, so i thought i better check

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's been a while, so i thought i better check

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

jews and Muslims and many other religions believe Jesus was just a prophet. But the very defining characteristic of christianity was that jesus was the coming of God in human form to the Earth.

If you ar a christian you have to believe that Jesus was god, that's the one thing that you cannot debate in Christianity. Because if Jesus was not God, then he wasn't the Christ, literally.

The idea that Jesus of Nazareth was God is literally the entire basis of the Christian religion. I can't believe we are even debating this.

[Niamh.]

I'm no expert but its the way we were taught it in school that they're the same "person"

like this :

Is Jesus God?
Some say Jesus Christ was just a man, or maybe a great teacher. But He was and is much more than that. The Bible says Jesus is unique in both His person and His purpose. He wasn’t just some spiritual individual during His time on earth; He was both God’s Son (John 3:16) and God Himself—God in human flesh (I Timothy 3:16). Yes, He was fully man, but He was also fully God (Colossians 2:9).

The claims

Jesus claimed to be God. It might be hard to understand how this could be true, but it’s important to remember that God is much bigger and more powerful than we can comprehend. We do know that Jesus said He existed before Abraham (John 8:58). He claimed that He and His Father are one (John 10:30), and that He is equal with the Father (John 5:17-18).

Not only did He claim to be God, but He also claimed to have the power of God. He said He has the authority to judge the nations (Matthew 25:31-46). He claims the authority to raise people from the dead (John 5:25-29) and to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7)—things only God can do (I Samuel 2:6; Isaiah 43:25).

Further, Jesus says He has the power to answer prayers (John 14:13-14), and that He will be with His followers always (Matthew 28:20). The New Testament equates Jesus to the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and in John 16:15, He says, “All that belongs to the Father is mine.”

https://goingfarther.net/common-questions/is-jesus-god/

[LeatherTrumpet]

Jesus is god according to the tale

Its kind of the whole deal

the trinity et al

[lostalex]

Why would christians pray to Jesus as their lord and savior if Jesus wasn't God? wouldn't that be worshiping a false idol? it's because Jesus is God! (according to christians)

This whole conversation is making me uncomfortable because i'm an athiest now, but I am very clear on my understanding of Christianity, and Jesus is very clearly God in all of christianity. aka THE Lord and Savior. Literally Jesus is God in christianity. I'm very sure about that.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Jesus is god according to the tale

Its kind of the whole deal

the trinity et al

thank you! i know i'm not crazy.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Why would christians pray to Jesus as their lord and savior if Jesus wasn't God? wouldn't that be worshiping a false idol? it's because Jesus is God! (according to christians)

This whole conversation is making me uncomfortable because i'm an athiest now, but I am very clear on my understanding of Christianity, and Jesus is very clearly God in all of christianity. aka THE Lord and Savior. Literally Jesus is God in christianity. I'm very sure about that.

Same

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by lostalex

thank you! i know i'm not crazy.

wait, i did not confirm that

[LeatherTrumpet]

I think that they had to make Jesus god for the whole shebang to work

[Toy Soldier]

It seems simple enough to me; God created a physical human body (which you could call "his son", physically, a human body that he created) but then he put himself, or a humanised incarnation of himself, into that physical body. The body is just a vehicle (an avatar) for the "soul" of God himself, which existed before, and continued to exist after, the body. The body itself didn't have its own separate individual self, however, the "human life" and experiences that God lived inside that body could be considered distinct from the rest of his existence. You could argue that the experience of being human himself altered his understanding of humanity, hence the tonal differences between the new and old testaments, and the general insistence that anything contradictory to the old testament contained in the new testament should be considered to "override" the old testament.

I kind of wish there was truth in it, it's a fascinating story really. I get why people get so invested in it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's been a while, so i thought i better check

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

That's kind of explained here :

Jesus can be both God and the son of God because the terms don't mean the same thing. When we say that Jesus is God (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8), we are saying that Jesus possesses the divine nature (as well as a human nature, see hypostatic union). But the term "Son of God" does not mean that Jesus is not God. Think about it. If the term "Son of God" meant that Jesus is not God, then does the term "Son of Man" mean that Jesus is not a man? Of course not. Likewise, if the term "Son of Man" means that Jesus is a man, then does it not imply that when it says Jesus is the "Son of God" that he is God? We ought not look at the ancient words found in Scripture and judge them by modern thinking.

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God," (John 5:18).

As you can see in this verse, Jesus was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Therefore, the term Son of God is a designation of the equality with God when it is a reference to Christ.

https://carm.org/how-can-jesus-be-bo...and-son-of-god

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It seems simple enough to me; God created a physical human body (which you could call "his son", physically, a human body that he created) but then he put himself, or a humanised incarnation of himself, into that physical body. The body is just a vehicle (an avatar) for the "soul" of God himself, which existed before, and continued to exist after, the body. The body itself didn't have its own separate individual self, however, the "human life" and experiences that God lived inside that body could be considered distinct from the rest of his existence. You could argue that the experience of being human himself altered his understanding of humanity, hence the tonal differences between the new and old testaments, and the general insistence that anything contradictory to the old testament contained in the new testament should be considered to "override" the old testament.

I kind of wish there was truth in it, it's a fascinating story really. I get why people get so invested in it.

and of course they HAD to punish him, crucify him, break his legs etc to atone for our sins

i mean he could not just let him live and atone anyroad now could he

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It seems simple enough to me; God created a physical human body (which you could call "his son", physically, a human body that he created) but then he put himself, or a humanised incarnation of himself, into that physical body. The body is just a vehicle (an avatar) for the "soul" of God himself, which existed before, and continued to exist after, the body. The body itself didn't have its own separate individual self, however, the "human life" and experiences that God lived inside that body could be considered distinct from the rest of his existence. You could argue that the experience of being human himself altered his understanding of humanity, hence the tonal differences between the new and old testaments, and the general insistence that anything contradictory to the old testament contained in the new testament should be considered to "override" the old testament.

I kind of wish there was truth in it, it's a fascinating story really. I get why people get so invested in it.

not just a physical body, supposedly he was the only human ever born without sin since Adam. Literally a boy born with the spirit of God, he did not have original sin, and he was God on earth. God purposefully impregnated Mary with himself to be born onto the Earth.

Saying a boy made from God, well then Jesus would be no different than Adam, because God made Adam aswell, Adam was truly the "son" of God.

Jesus was not the son of God, Jesus was actually God.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's kind of explained here :

Jesus can be both God and the son of God because the terms don't mean the same thing. When we say that Jesus is God (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8), we are saying that Jesus possesses the divine nature (as well as a human nature, see hypostatic union). But the term "Son of God" does not mean that Jesus is not God. Think about it. If the term "Son of God" meant that Jesus is not God, then does the term "Son of Man" mean that Jesus is not a man? Of course not. Likewise, if the term "Son of Man" means that Jesus is a man, then does it not imply that when it says Jesus is the "Son of God" that he is God? We ought not look at the ancient words found in Scripture and judge them by modern thinking.

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God," (John 5:18).

As you can see in this verse, Jesus was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Therefore, the term Son of God is a designation of the equality with God when it is a reference to Christ.

https://carm.org/how-can-jesus-be-bo...and-son-of-god

well that's as clear as .... mud


anyway, given its entirely a work of fiction to my mind, i really don't care one way or another, but I do know what I was taught as a kid, and that was what I repeated.

Wars have been fought (literally) over less

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by lostalex

not just a physical body, supposedly the only human ever born without sin since Adam. literally a boy born with the spirit of God, he did not have original sin, and he was God on earth.

Saying a boy made from God, well then Jesus would be no different than Adam, because God made Adam aswell, Adam was truly the "son" of God.

Jesus was not the son of God, Jesus was actually God.

Well that would be because original sin is part of the soul that inhabits the human body, whereas Jesus didn't have a human soul, he was just a flesh-suit for the soul of God to ride around in for a while.

[lostalex]

It's really weird to me that so many christian people on this forum are so confused about the nature of Jesus. I'm a total atheist and it seems i understand the religion more than most people. lol

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well that would be because original sin is part of the soul that inhabits the human body, whereas Jesus didn't have a human soul, he was just a flesh-suit for the soul of God to ride around in for a while.

eggggsactly. Jesus was GOD. That's the whole point. You get it. That's the entire premise of the religion. I didn't realize that some people didn't get that. Some people seem to think that Jesus is a separate entity from God.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

well that's as clear as .... mud


anyway, given its entirely a work of fiction to my mind, i really don't care one way or another, but I do know what I was taught as a kid, and that was what I repeated.

Wars have been fought (literally) over less

Oh me neither but it is definitely how I was taught it

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well that would be because original sin is part of the soul that inhabits the human body, whereas Jesus didn't have a human soul, he was just a flesh-suit for the soul of God to ride around in for a while.

yeah exactly I thought the article I posted explained it pretty well, basically if being "the Son of man" makes you a man then being "the Son of God" would make you God

[lostalex]

anyways, the whole thing makes no sense, so I really can't believe that i'm defending it or explaining it lol

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

anyways, the whole thing makes no sense, so I really can't believe that i'm defending it or explaining it lol

Same

[LeatherTrumpet]

so who is the Pope then?

[Toy Soldier]

The way I see it is, if I can justify the lore behind Game of Thrones then I can justify the lore behind Game of Bibles . It's fiction but meh... I like fiction, and thinking about fiction, even if half of the time the ideas that come out of it are way beyond what the writer actually ever intended.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's been a while, so i thought i better check

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

Never mind scholarly discussion. Lostalex knows.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Same

*huggles and snuggles* I missed you. we'll be fine.