[Gusto Brunt]

I must say I was not a fan of India showing us her legs last night.

Wrong side of 50 for that.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, some people remember stuff from being 3. However...literally the only difference between the sexes for a 3 year old is stereotypical stuff (well tbh, discounting biological differences even as adults the only differences are stereotypes). So to say you knew you were trans...because you did not like playing with trucks and liked sparkles or whatever is...dodgy.

Even more odd I am finding, is the claim that Greg knew he was gay aged 4 A 4 year old does not, or should not, know anything about sexuality or seeing people in a sexual way.

It's not just about seeing people in a sexual way though, sex is part of it obviously but not the whole thing. Many gay people say they knew when they were children. I know I did, I don't think as young as 3 but definitely before I ever had any sexual thoughts.
Noone fully understands all there is to sexuality and transgender feelings so I don't think any of it being known at a young age can be fully ruled out based on the limited things we do know.

[Amy Jade]

Actually this reminds me of Secret Life of 4 Year Olds

There was a little boy who had no interest in the girls and got upset when the boy he played with got a girlfriend and even became withdrawn because of it, now if in 10 years time he turns out to be gay I would personally believe his reaction to the boy he was close to getting a girlfriend was a sign

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thats so odd to me. I wonder if its me thats different and just assuming that I am 'normal'. Genuinely did not feel any kind of sexual attraction til I was maybe 12 or so. And it is making me feel a little ill considering that 4 year olds could be thinking in that way. My daughter is 5...am slightly worried as I do find that really strange

(I'd imagine it was closer to romantic attraction than sexual attraction, but I'm on your page too).

[Vicky.]

I freaked myself out with the thought of kids having a sexuality when younger than my daughter. Have chilled myself out a little now

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/raina...b_8278146.html

Apparently average age 9-10. Could not find age for heterosexuality...but I guess there would never have been any studies done on that as..well why would they

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, some people remember stuff from being 3. However...literally the only difference between the sexes for a 3 year old is stereotypical stuff (well tbh, discounting biological differences even as adults the only differences are stereotypes). So to say you knew you were trans...because you did not like playing with trucks and liked sparkles or whatever is...dodgy.

Even more odd I am finding, is the claim that Greg knew he was gay aged 4 A 4 year old does not, or should not, know anything about sexuality or seeing people in a sexual way.

Well I did so.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thats so odd to me. I wonder if its me thats different and just assuming that I am 'normal'. Genuinely did not feel any kind of sexual attraction til I was maybe 12 or so. And it is making me feel a little ill considering that 4 year olds could be thinking in that way. My daughter is 5...am slightly worried as I do find that really strange

In some aspect I agree with you?

It wasn't as if I 'knew' - it was very much something I only came to terms with until I was like, what, 13??
It wasn't anything 'sexual', like "I want to kiss boys" (but I'll get to this point in a min!), it was just I always thought they were cuter than girls.
I don't know how this would make you feel, but when I was around 5? the boys in my class used to run around chasing girls trying to kiss them (I think the fact I backed out of that is also how I realised I was gay at such a young age)

A friend I made recently who I didn't grow up with said his mum told him she knew he was gay because he cried that, similar to how boys chased girls around when i grew up, boys chased the girls and tried to kiss them on his playground and he cried because the boys weren't trying to kiss him

[jaxie]

Well she wasn't very nice over the bed. I think she was quite selfish really. Ann is elderly and deserves a little consideration.

Also she is on a show celebrating women and she is not a woman she is a trans woman. I think many women will feel disappointed that once again women are pushed aside in favour of someone who was a man two years ago.

[Greg!]

listen Vicky I didn't even know what 'gay' meant when I was 4-5 OBVIOUSLY but I knew there was something different.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Greg!

listen Vicky I didn't even know what 'gay' meant when I was 4-5 OBVIOUSLY but I knew there was something different.

this

[Greg!]

And ew I didn't "see people in a sexual way" at age 4, I did NOT say that

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Greg!

listen Vicky I didn't even know what 'gay' meant when I was 4-5 OBVIOUSLY but I knew there was something different.

Well yes
And you are ewing at the idea of 'in a sexual way' but thats exactly what bloody sexuality is

[Greg!]

I found guys attractive at a young age and not girls, it's not a hard concept to grasp!

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes
And you are ewing at the idea of 'in a sexual way' but thats exactly what bloody sexuality is

But to be fair, having romantic feelings/thinking guys are cute are on a different page to having sexual desires. You can feel romantic feelings without feeling sexual desires/feelings, and while 'romantic feelings' may not be the best way to describe how I felt towards my guy friend when I was 5, it's certainly more applicable than looking at him in a 'sexual way'

[Vicky.]

Even on attraction though..I felt no attraction to anyone til about 12 or older. Yes, attraction is a better way of putting it. But yeah, maybe its me who was a late developer or something. Just always thought that was 'normal' but it seems i am in the minority

See these are the sort of conversations I want the housemates to have. Actual..interesting stuff. I think we will get it from the lineup too rather than 'omgz X fancies X, he is so hot' rubbish

[bots]

honestly think people are attributing affinity with what is to become sexual preference.

I mean, I remember as a kid where all the boys would be together, they were mates that got up to mischief, they were best buddies and were much closer than they were with girls. That doesn't make someone gay. Times change of course, but I don't see how a kid could distinguish that affinity and camaraderie with what would become sexual preference

[Alf]

What an influence those Tellytubbies was.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

honestly think people are attributing affinity with what is to become sexual preference.

I mean, I remember as a kid where all the boys would be together, they were mates that got up to mischief, they were best buddies and were much closer than they were with girls. That doesn't make someone gay. Times change of course, but I don't see how a kid could distinguish that affinity and camaraderie with a what would become sexual preference

I'm not on about that, I had literal crushes on some of me pals and some celebs when I was really young (but obvs didn't even know what it was!)

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

honestly think people are attributing affinity with what is to become sexual preference.

I mean, I remember as a kid where all the boys would be together, they were mates that got up to mischief, they were best buddies and were much closer than they were with girls. That doesn't make someone gay. Times change of course, but I don't see how a kid could distinguish that affinity and camaraderie with what would become sexual preference

I don't think it's that tbh. Friendships at school weren't really anything to do with it. Most of my friends were boys but I wasn't attracted to them, and most of those boys turned out straight. It's hard to explain though because I don't know what it is. It's not attraction in a sexual way and I think it's not an obvious thing, the only thing that really makes it obvious is that it's directed towards boys not girls and that's why it stands out, because from a very age you're taught that that's not normal, so whatever it is maybe young straight people do feel it too it just doesn't stand out to them because it's in line with what they consider to be normal, there's no reason for it to alarm them or for them to even really notice it.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't think it's that tbh. Friendships at school weren't really anything to do with it. Most of my friends were boys but I wasn't attracted to them, and most of those boys turned out straight. It's hard to explain though because I don't know what it is. It's not attraction in a sexual way and I think it's not an obvious thing, the only thing that really makes it obvious is that it's directed towards boys not girls and that's why it stands out, because from a very age you're taught that that's not normal, so whatever it is maybe young straight people do feel it too it just doesn't stand out to them because it's in line with what they consider to be normal, there's no reason for it to alarm them?

Omg yes this. You've articulated it perfectly

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, some people remember stuff from being 3. However...literally the only difference between the sexes for a 3 year old is stereotypical stuff (well tbh, discounting biological differences even as adults the only differences are stereotypes). So to say you knew you were trans...because you did not like playing with trucks and liked sparkles or whatever is...dodgy.

Even more odd I am finding, is the claim that Greg knew he was gay aged 4 A 4 year old does not, or should not, know anything about sexuality or seeing people in a sexual way.

I'm with you here. No child as young as three and four even understands what sexuality is. Let alone knows anything about their own.

[jaxie]

It's quite interesting that it seems all those arguing it is wrong not to accept India as a fully fledged woman and not a trans woman are all boys.

I think she has every right to live how she wants. I'll even call her she for the sake of her personal happiness but she isn't the same as me and the point is the show is saying she is. They even have two x chromosones in the intro ffs

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't think it's that tbh. Friendships at school weren't really anything to do with it. Most of my friends were boys but I wasn't attracted to them, and most of those boys turned out straight. It's hard to explain though because I don't know what it is. It's not attraction in a sexual way and I think it's not an obvious thing, the only thing that really makes it obvious is that it's directed towards boys not girls and that's why it stands out, because from a very age you're taught that that's not normal, so whatever it is maybe young straight people do feel it too it just doesn't stand out to them because it's in line with what they consider to be normal, there's no reason for it to alarm them or for them to even really notice it.

But who told you it was not normal when you were that young? At that age, most thought processes are taught or learned behaviours. My son is 7, I have gay friends and straight friends, he doesnt think anyone is normal and others abnormal. No one has ever told him that being in love with someone of the same sex is abnormal so he doesnt think it. I think its awful that at that age you thought any thoughts or feelings you had were perceived abnormal

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's quite interesting that it seems all those arguing it is wrong not to accept India as a fully fledged woman and not a trans woman are all boys.

I think she has every right to live how she wants. I'll even call her she for the sake of her personal happiness but she isn't the same as me and the point is the show is saying she is. They even have two x chromosones in the intro ffs

There have been female members on here who have also argued for acceptance of India as a woman (and noone is saying she shouldn't be considered a trans woman, the argument is that a trans woman is also a woman, and none of that means anyone is saying she is the same as a non trans woman)

Originally Posted by AnnieK

But who told you it was not normal when you were that young? At that age, most thought processes are taught or learned behaviours. My son is 7, I have gay friends and straight friends, he doesnt think anyone is normal and others abnormal. No one has ever told him that being in love with someone of the same sex is abnormal so he doesnt think it. I think its awful that at that age you thought any thoughts or feelings you had were perceived abnormal

It's not an explicit thing, it's just from what you see around you, whether it's man/woman relationships in cartoons, or things that you pick up on, like I remember losing a tooth and my grandma saying jokingly 'have you been kissing the girls'... (not sure if that's a usual phrase? ) it's just little things in society that reaffirm a norm of male/female relationships and children do have an awareness of those things. Children are very much brought up to be straight imo, if that wasn't the case there would be no 'coming out'.

Just to add: it could of course be different for your son and many other people, I'm not saying it's the same for everyone and there are probably gay people who don't know their sexuality as a child, or ones that do and don't feel abnormal, I was just referring to my own experience and feelings about it based on my own environment and I didn't view being gay as normal as a child based on those things.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

But who told you it was not normal when you were that young?

Constant heteronormative narratives in movies, TV shows, books, music etc and society in general? Which is why theres such a big deal made over LGBT representation in kids' shows nowadays for example.