[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh sorry I thought this was the debate section and that was the idea?...

Yes, debate. Not monologues.


I would imagine that after a couple of kids some women may insist a vasectomy be carried out without anaesthetic by the biggest, roughest pair of hands available.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It just flat out is worse I think! They all looked totally unphased during the balls surgery but the doctor who did my toenail looked like she was going to be sick . She was sweating and went really pale.

It must feel horrible to do tbf. They sort of jam these little pliers right under the nail down to the base and then twist back and forward until it pops off... Takes quite a lot of effort too... She had to get a nurse to hold my foot down while she tug-of-warred it off.

ugh gross, it's actually a form of torture used too, pulling out peoples finger/toe nails

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you go private it's not even a full on surgery these days... It's like a 10 minute procedure with a laser scalpel . NHS it's the rusty scissors, hahaha.

I actually watched them do the whole thing, which apparently is unusual, most people close their eyes or look away. I always watch these things!

And tbh, it was like 50% less traumatising than when I had my big toenail removed. That was ****ing disgusting to watch and so painful that I feel sick thinking about it.

Did you watch as they removed your toenail? I had to have my thumbnail removed after an accident and the junior nurse in attendannce passed out.

[user104658]

Yeah, I've had both done and watched both times. It's really grim . I have to admit I started chuckling a bit the second time because the doctor looked so upset about it... The nurse that was there was asking HER if she was OK!

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh I took your post to be meaning women can request same sex but men cannot at all.

Have never had an intimate exam done in a hospital (exception of giving birth obviously ), nor has my husband. But clearly it IS possible to request a same sex practitioner as otherwise this would not have been noted as an admin error, it would have been stated that the right to request either sex was not possible for hospital examinations.

Either way though, the nurse in this case was clearly a dick to argue with the patient claiming their gender identity meant they were actually the opposite sex when the patient said to them that they had asked for a female. So woman was fine asking for a female person to do the exam. NHS made an error but things happen I guess. HCP was very wrong to argue with patient about something patient could see with their own eyes..and to have the mistaken belief that everyone subscribes to this silly idea that physical sex is not a real thing...

We don't know that she argued about it or that there was anything wrong with her attitude tbf, what she said could have simply been a response to her gender being questioned, she might have been asked directly and her response was what she believes her gender to be (we also don't know that she believes everyone should agree with her... this is all assumptions, it's a small soundbite of what the nurse had said in the article and no actual comments from her to give her own pov or version). But considering the patient didn't want to raise a complaint about her I think it's unfair to assume she was being aggressive (the patient had no qualms about making a complaint against the hospital so I think it's fair to assume she would also have made a complaint about the nurse if she thought she'd been inappropriate).
The problem lies with whoever made the error in my view, the nurse shouldn't be demonised or shouldering the blame for any of this, she's just carrying out her job and trying to help people and was probably equally embarrassed and upset over the situation as the patient was.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

We don't know that she argued about it or that there was anything wrong with her attitude tbf, what she said could have simply been a response to her gender being questioned, she might have been asked directly and her response was what she believes her gender to be (we also don't know that she believes everyone should agree with her... this is all assumptions, it's a small soundbite of what the nurse had said in the article and no actual comments from her to give her own pov or version). But considering the patient didn't want to raise a complaint about her I think it's unfair to assume she was being aggressive (the patient had no qualms about making a complaint against the hospital so I think it's fair to assume she would also have made a complaint about the nurse if she thought she'd been inappropriate).
The problem lies with whoever made the error in my view, the nurse shouldn't be demonised or shouldering the blame for any of this, she's just carrying out her job and trying to help people and was probably equally embarrassed and upset over the situation as the patient was.

I didn't assume they were aggressive? But they came back with bollocks about gender identity when the patient said they asked for a female. 'Gender identity' does not make one the sex you want to be.

The nurse did not make the original mistake, but the nurse did feel the need to come back with 'gender identity' crap when the patient said they had requested a female. Thats seriously crappy for a healthcare professional. Who ought to know that some people request same sex practitioners and should understand that.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didn't assume they were aggressive? But they came back with bollocks about gender identity when the patient said they asked for a female. 'Gender identity' does not make one the sex you want to be.

The nurse did not make the original mistake, but the nurse did feel the need to come back with 'gender identity' crap when the patient said they had requested a female. Thats seriously crappy for a healthcare professional. Who ought to know that some people request same sex practitioners and should understand that.

*swap 'aggressive' for 'argumentative' then that's what I was referring to.

All we really know is that she was questioned over her gender, and she replied with what she believes her gender to be. We know nothing else around what was said or discussed or that she was unprofessional in her dealings with the patient or argumentative. She may have handled the situation professionally for all we know but in that instance of being questioned over a personal attribute, she replied. If as an example a nurse is a born female but she looked like a man and was questioned about her gender by a patient and replied with 'I'm female'... would you consider that to be unprofessional or simply an answer to what is being asked? A strong indicator as to her professionalism or attitude would be if she was included within the patients complaint, but she wasn't. I just find this over focusing on the nurse because of 1 line in the article that assumptions are being drawn from when nothing about her attitude is even mentioned is a bit ott.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

*swap 'aggressive' for 'argumentative' then that's what I was referring to.

All we really know is that she was questioned over her gender, and she replied with what she believes her gender to be. We know nothing else around what was said or discussed or that she was unprofessional in her dealings with the patient or argumentative. She may have handled the situation professionally for all we know but in that instance of being questioned over a personal attribute, she replied. If as an example a nurse is a born female but she looked like a man and was questioned about her gender by a patient and replied with 'I'm female'... would you consider that to be unprofessional or simply an answer to what is being asked? A strong indicator as to her professionalism or attitude would be if she was included within the patients complaint, but she wasn't. I just find this over focusing on the nurse because of 1 line in the article that assumptions are being drawn from when nothing about her attitude is even mentioned is a bit ott.

The nurse would actually be female though in that case? Quite different to a male person saying they are not male. I get that they want to be female, I do. But they are not and when the patient specified that they asked for a female person (and yes, the nurse was not at fault for whoever booked the appointment sending a male person...) it should have just been 'ok, sorry about that'. Not claiming to not be male. And male is not a 'gender' either

[Vicky.]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...nurse-11776953

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/89...ear-male-nurse

Another couple of links that go into a bit more detail too.

Central and North West London NHS Foundation Trust said: “We apologised to this patient for the recording error and because the staff member accepted they didn’t manage the situation appropriately or professionally; the patient needed to feel listened to.

“Trust policy for all services is to consider seriously all requests for clinicians of a particular gender; it allows patients to feel more supported; we will deny a request if we believe it to be sexually motivated or where there might be a risk to a member of staff, but we will always explain ourselves.”

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...nurse-11776953

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/89...ear-male-nurse

Another couple of links that go into a bit more detail too.

Ok I wasn't aware of that, I was just going by the article in the OP and I thought this was all assumptions, I didn't realise there was more information on how the nurse handled the situation so I'll concede on that. (I'd still like to think that she wouldn't have intended to cause any unnecessary distress to anyone and just found herself in an uncomfortable and difficult situation that she shouldn't have been put in in the first place, but yes that's just an assumption too )

[Vicky.]

Sorry I didn't read the OP article in full as had already read the story and remembered that that had been said about the nurses conduct. Didn't think to actually read the same one again

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It just flat out is worse I think! They all looked totally unphased during the balls surgery but the doctor who did my toenail looked like she was going to be sick . She was sweating and went really pale.

It must feel horrible to do tbf. They sort of jam these little pliers right under the nail down to the base and then twist back and forward until it pops off... Takes quite a lot of effort too... She had to get a nurse to hold my foot down while she tug-of-warred it off.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Ok I wasn't aware of that, I was just going by the article in the OP and I thought this was all assumptions, I didn't realise there was more information on how the nurse handled the situation so I'll concede on that. (I'd still like to think that she wouldn't have intended to cause any unnecessary distress to anyone and just found herself in an uncomfortable and difficult situation that she shouldn't have been put in in the first place, but yes that's just an assumption too )

I think the one put in the most uncomfortable position was the poor women patient who, like most women, dreaded the examination only to be put in the uncomfortable and embarrassing position she was and ended up, probably after a lot of psyching up for the exam in the first place, having to cancel it. The patient is the one who should never have been put in that position in the first place.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I think the one put in the most uncomfortable position was the poor women patient who, like most women, dreaded the examination only to be put in the uncomfortable and embarrassing position she was and ended up, probably after a lot of psyching up for the exam in the first place, having to cancel it. The patient is the one who should never have been put in that position in the first place.

Yes, I think I've stated in here that it must have been very uncomfortable for the patient. I only mentioned the nurse's discomfort in the post you quoted because that's who we were talking about. It will have been very uncomfortable for both of them.