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Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

View Poll Results: Do you agree with the bolded part of this post, to be used as moderating policy
I agree 7 58.33%
I agree
7 58.33%
I disagree - please post why 2 16.67%
I disagree - please post why
2 16.67%
I kind of agree, but there are problems - please state what 3 25.00%
I kind of agree, but there are problems - please state what
3 25.00%
I think things should just stay as they are 0 0%
I think things should just stay as they are
0 0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-02-2018, 05:01 PM #1
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Default Serious debates moderating policy, take 2

OK there have recently been a few issues with people complaining about various moderation decisions in this section. I think that maybe some kind of collective decision can be made on this (with a bit of luck). Now obviously everyone won't agree, I don't think we could do anything that literally everyone agrees with...but we can try to get a large majority decision and stick by that. So, my idea for this is

Would people be happy with discussion threads actually being threads full of discussion? Rather than the snipey rubbish we often get in this section. This would mean that


-Posts such as 'but what about X' are no good. You can add your actual opinion and bring up X in relation to your post, yes. But just nothing but a 'what about' post is no good. No bringing up totally unrelated things, unless there is an actual reason to bring up that thing, and of there is, then thats fine.
-Posts must actually be well thought out and address the OP. If the thread has moved on naturally (as sometimes happens), then thats fine too, but posts must have some actual thought put into them.
-The sniping at each other stops. Yes, say you disagree with someones opinion. But just stuff such as 'you like X so obviously you would think that', with no other substance to the post at all, is pointless.


Obviously usual rules about no insulting members and such would apply also.

I would say that anyone persistently making one line 'what about' type posts, or sniping rather than debating should be banned from this section temporarily, and then permanently if it continues, not fully banned.

Finally, I would like peoples actual opinions on this as I basically want to do something that most are happy with tbh.

So if you say no on the poll, pleased tell me why and what you would suggest instead.

We can hopefully come to an agreement between all of us.

Maybe I am being too optimistic though. But lets see

Second attempt at this as my first attempt was clearly questionable in some of the 'rules'

We don't like to have many rules at all tbh in this section..we are more lenient here than elsewhere as we realize people get quite passionate about certain topics. But clearly some decisions made recently have annoyed a lot of members...
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:05 PM #2
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It's like ground hog day

I agree!
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:06 PM #3
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I know

I did realise though that the bit about links in posts and such is a bit harsh as many people will just post a news story and then add their opinion later on

Just really really want to sort out this section and if I just start deleting the posts that I mention in the OP, people will go mental about it so...thought it best to be transparent.

I am basically trying to save this section, as I used to love it and I know how good it can be without all of the recent rubbish

Given it seems I am not allowed to step down..this is the next best thing, besides just leaving the bloody site
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but now not into takeaways anymore
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:08 PM #4
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[QUOTE=Vicky.;9854624]I know

I did realise though that the bit about links in posts and such is a bit harsh as many people will just post a news story and then add their opinion later on

Just really really want to sort out this section and if I just start deleting the posts that I mention in the OP, people will go mental about it so...thought it best to be transparent.

I am basically trying to save this section, as I used to love it and I know how good it can be without all of the recent rubbish

Given it seems I am not allowed to step down..this is the next best thing, besides just leaving the bloody site [/QUOTE]

no you are not allowed to step down

and thank you for trying to sort this out
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:08 PM #5
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The problem is people take serious debates far too seriously, arguing with someone you don't like about a subject that you can't change or won't change.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:10 PM #6
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The problem is people take serious debates far too seriously, arguing with someone you don't like about a subject that you can't change or won't change.
Well, thats what serious debates is though, surely. Someone should be able to forcefully argue their point without dissolving into a 'whataboutery' fit or sniping on.

Cherie - I have literally asked to be a normal member again like 3 times now in the past couple of months and I am still green. It was annoying me a bit, but I am now over it I think. I think james may have just thought I was tantruming a bit, which in one of the cases may be true but in the others i was deadly serious
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always cook meals, i did have chinese takeaways the year before the corona **** happened
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:11 PM #7
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I clicked the wrong option but I agree with that.

I also think that terms like 'Snowflake', using leftie (or loony left) or rightie or whatever as an insult, remoaner etc should be infractable offenses, I read a good point the other day (maybe a few weeks back) that terms like 'cat lady' are infractable offenses but these typically aren't I also think these should be infractable too since they only serve as an insult.

I made this point in the CBB forum when India was still the main talking point but I don't think accusing a forum member of something (Hypocrisy, racism or, in the case of CBB, Transphobia, etc) should be considered an insult unless it's something among the lines of 'You're a racist wanker' etc. If someone says 'well, I think that view is sexist and here's the reasons why' that should not be considered an insult, it's an argument and one backed up with reasoning.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:15 PM #8
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Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
I clicked the wrong option but I agree with that.

I also think that terms like 'Snowflake', using leftie (or loony left) or rightie or whatever as an insult, remoaner etc should be infractable offenses, I read a good point the other day (maybe a few weeks back) that terms like 'cat lady' are infractable offenses but these typically aren't I also think these should be infractable too since they only serve as an insult.

I made this point in the CBB forum when India was still the main talking point but I don't think accusing a forum member of something (Hypocrisy, racism or, in the case of CBB, Transphobia, etc) should be considered an insult unless it's something among the lines of 'You're a racist wanker' etc. If someone says 'well, I think that view is sexist and here's the reasons why' that should not be considered an insult, it's an argument and one backed up with reasoning.
I would agree with that, can we also add words like scum etc, because they add nothing, you don't hear that at PMs questions, Teresa May shouting scum at the opposition
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:15 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
I clicked the wrong option but I agree with that.

I also think that terms like 'Snowflake', using leftie (or loony left) or rightie or whatever as an insult, remoaner etc should be infractable offenses, I read a good point the other day (maybe a few weeks back) that terms like 'cat lady' are infractable offenses but these typically aren't I also think these should be infractable too since they only serve as an insult.

I made this point in the CBB forum when India was still the main talking point but I don't think accusing a forum member of something (Hypocrisy, racism or, in the case of CBB, Transphobia, etc) should be considered an insult unless it's something among the lines of 'You're a racist wanker' etc. If someone says 'well, I think that view is sexist and here's the reasons why' that should not be considered an insult, it's an argument and one backed up with reasoning.
I agree with this. Its fine to say you consider someones view to be transphobic, but it should be backed up with why you think that, basically?

But I do think random 'you are racist' posts should be considered an insult if the likes of 'snowflake' were

Personally I completely disagree with snowflake and leftie/rightie (never have heard rightie, ever) being insults though. Loony left, possibly. Remoaner is a clearly baiting term I reckon. I know its used in the press, but that doesnt change anything.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:15 PM #10
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Well, thats what serious debates is though, surely. Someone should be able to forcefully argue their point without dissolving into a 'whataboutery' fit or sniping on.

Cherie - I have literally asked to be a normal member again like 3 times now in the past couple of months and I am still green. It was annoying me a bit, but I am now over it I think. I think james may have just thought I was tantruming a bit, which in one of the cases may be true but in the others i was deadly serious


I am glad he has made you see sense
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:17 PM #11
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I would agree with that, can we also add words like scum etc, because they add nothing, you don't hear that at PMs questions, Teresa May shouting scum at the opposition
I don't think its the word scum specifically, but I do think that random posts just with 'she is scum' or whatever should be deleted. It clearly adds nothing at all to the discussion tbh. But if there was a post that actually had substance, and had the word scum in, that would be fine. if that makes sense.
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Last edited by Vicky.; 07-02-2018 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:17 PM #12
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Well, thats what serious debates is though, surely. Someone should be able to forcefully argue their point without dissolving into a 'whataboutery' fit or sniping on.

Cherie - I have literally asked to be a normal member again like 3 times now in the past couple of months and I am still green. It was annoying me a bit, but I am now over it I think. I think james may have just thought I was tantruming a bit, which in one of the cases may be true but in the others i was deadly serious
Only on an internet site would you continue to argue with some one who views you don't agree with, you don't mix with people you don't like in real life.

As members look for ways to undermine another members opinion it gets personal because that's their personal opinion.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:18 PM #13
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How do you detemine what a well-thought out post is? A minimum word count?

I'd like to add, I'd say a good 30%+ of the arguments stem from people misinterpreting posts - I think that needs to be addressed somewhere.

But all good ideas in the op
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:21 PM #14
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How do you detemine what a well-thought out post is? A minimum word count?

I'd like to add, I'd say a good 30%+ of the arguments stem from people misinterpreting posts - I think that needs to be addressed somewhere.

But all good ideas in the op
I have no idea. I have actually asked James before if we can have a minimum word count in this section and he said it could not be done with the software. But I think thats maybe a good idea. Issue there is, sometimes a single word would be fine. Depending on the thread. So yet again, its all about context, which is why its extremely hard to have these 'set rules' that people demand of us.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:22 PM #15
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A bit off topic but a serious question, is Josy ok as she as not been posting.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:22 PM #16
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A bit off topic but a serious question, is Josy ok as she as not been posting.
She's fine, just busy I think
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:23 PM #17
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I don't think its the word scum specifically, but I do think that random posts just with 'she is scum' or whatever should be deleted. It clearly adds nothing at all to the discussion tbh. But if there was a post that actually had substance, and had the word scum in, that would be fine. if that makes sense.
I'd agree to that.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:23 PM #18
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She's fine, just busy I think
That's ok then, thanks.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:24 PM #19
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A bit off topic but a serious question, is Josy ok as she as not been posting.
She was on recently but not for long. Shes taking a break from the forum. I think thats a good plan tbh, will probably end up doing the same if this crap continues as its draining and I cannot really be arsed at all
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:25 PM #20
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I don't think minimum word counts would be the way to go, some people can succinctly explain their points in a few sentences and make just as much sense as someone who writes an essay.

I think it's just something you judge on a case by case basis, you can tell a good post from a bad one.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:27 PM #21
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Anything that better defines an understandable, even handed approach is fine by me.

This being the serious debates section, I don't think its unreasonable to make considered and thought provoking posts rather than generalised snipes.
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She was on recently but not for long. Shes taking a break from the forum. I think thats a good plan tbh, will probably end up doing the same if this crap continues as its draining and I cannot really be arsed at all
I don't blame you Vicky, life is hard enough with out the constant conflict on here.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:28 PM #23
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I don't think its the word scum specifically, but I do think that random posts just with 'she is scum' or whatever should be deleted. It clearly adds nothing at all to the discussion tbh. But if there was a post that actually had substance, and had the word scum in, that would be fine. if that makes sense.
I'm a bit confused with this too, because sometimes under the correct context, 'she is scum' could be fine? Like that rees-mogg thread where the OP was of a video that highlights the awful things that he has done under his time in parliament. A natural response could be that he is scum, and that would be for the reasons that the video brought up, is there need to reiterate why he is scum? If there was a thread on a mass murderer some time in the future, why cant people use that space to vent? Why must they give reasons to vent, the reasons are going to be obvious sometimes..

I dunno, I'm not being purposely difficult I promise.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:29 PM #24
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I disagree and don't really think it needs changing and never get the whole vexation with SD or all the dire warnings

I don't want huge posts and polite. ' yes you have an interesting point there Hugo but I must take issue with point 3 if I may be so bold '

F that

Get your points made in a few lines and grow a thicker skin imo
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:30 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
I don't think minimum word counts would be the way to go, some people can succinctly explain their points in a few sentences and make just as much sense as someone who writes an essay.

I think it's just something you judge on a case by case basis, you can tell a good post from a bad one.
Yup, again, its all about context.

Again, this is why set rules do not really work. And yes, its generally very easy to tell regardless of word count if something is meant to be baity or not

How would everyone feel about a separate forum for actual debates. Where mention of current politics and such are basically, banned. So you could have a discussion about, maybe abortion rights, without it turning into a tory v labour thing? Its something I have brought up before (after it was suggested to me by PM) and I think this would help matters a lot as people sick top death of all the politics stuff could just go there
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