[jet]

Vicky, I hope you don't mind me posting your closing post in the thread you made to try to sort things out but I haven't been well today and slept a lot and have just resurfaced feeling somewhat better

I am closing my own thread as its now quite clear that no matter what we do, we will be in the wrong. I did think that maybe we could sort something out, but it is clear that this is not possible tbh. I don't know what I was thinking making this thread and being optimistic about it all. Also closing as I can see the direction this is now going to go, in exactly the same direction as most other threads.

Moderating is always going to be subjective. And context is important also so no 'set rules' would really work.

So I guess, I will be doing the same as usual, but I may also be reminding people that they need to be ontopic, and also intervening/deleting when appropriate. This will be my last attempt to sort out this section, and tbh, I am sure it won't work either but it has to be tried. If people do feel victimized, so be it. Its the nature of the job really isn't it..

So yeah, closed as its already going the same way as usual, tbh.

People may PM me if they disagree with this being closed, but I am sure most can see exactly why it was.

I really appreciate your effort and how you opened a thread with helpful suggestions and given everyone a voice and I'm sure most here feel the same.
I guess moderating any forum with people from all walks of life and opinions is a thankless and frustrating job most of the time. You couldn't pay me a handsome salary to do it!
So I'm thinking how do you moderate all sorts of people with all different opinions and experiences and emotions and backgrounds, and the answer is 'with great difficulty' so don't think your efforts have been in vain at all - it was inevitable that there is going to be all those voices wanting to be heard according to their their own views and perspectives.

And I too have my own view, of course, don't we all! and I don't really think the SD forum is that bad, really. I have little to complain about, apart from my and others opinions of the unfairness in the Ree Moggs thread which I think is a good example of something to look at and learn from, given the hassle it has caused.....

And another thing for me is people saying things like they do to Brillo (I hope you don't mind me referencing you here Brillo) like 'you are racist!' instead of 'your opinion sounds racist' as just an example. The first is stating a fixed opinion in the accusers mind, while the second is opening it up for further debate, explanation and clarification....and that goes for any terms people feel are derogatory - whether it be snowflake or sexist or fascist or whatever. It's little things like that that make a difference... Those things have caused so many problems here and are quite easy to fix if it is said 'it sounds like...can you explain further, rather than 'this is what you are'!

IMO only, apart from the above, and the big no - no of people getting awfully personal with each other, I'd let people go at it. Nobody can tame human beings with all their complexities or set ways and its futile to try. Like Ammi said, there can be young uns here with their own way of saying things or old hands with theirs. Let them hash it out among themselves unless it gets personal or someone is being uncomfortably targeted.

Only my probably simplistic take on it, but on the whole, I think the mods do a great job most of the time, suffering in silence! and it it is only when something in particular comes up that highlights a particular dissatisfaction, like that infamous Ree Moggs thread, do things need to be looked at and modified in light of that, just for future fairness and even -handedness.

So thanks in particular to Vicky, for making such a huge effort, and upwards and onward to SD and whatever it brings in the future - its never boring anyway, that's for sure!